October 28, 2024 Council Sustainability Committee

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Member Alison Hicks: Okay. So, I will be calling this meeting to order, um, this meet. We're on item number one. This meeting is being conducted with a virtual component, anyone wishing to address the council sustainability committee virtually. Can join the meeting on Zoom, um, using the link or a phone number and webinar ID shown on the screen. Um, when, uh, I announce the item on which you wish to speak, click on the race, hand feature in Zoom, or dial Star 9 on your phone. When I call your name to provide public comment, if you're participating via phone, please press star 6 to unmute. Um, for in-person attendees, please fill out a speaker card, which you can find on the sign in table to the left of the door. So we will now move on to local. Is Lee, can you take roll call?

[00:01:03] Member Alison Hicks: Take rolls, please. And grab a coca.

[00:01:05] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Here.

[00:01:06] Member Alison Hicks: Uh, Chair Hicks,

[00:01:07] Member Alison Hicks: here,

[00:01:08] Member Alison Hicks: member, show Walter.

[00:01:09] Member Pat Showalter: Here.

[00:01:11] Member Alison Hicks: So we're now moving on to item number three, which is approving the minutes. Um, these are the um, meeting minutes dated September 4th, 2024. Do any members have comments or questions about the meeting minutes? Okay. Um, I think we need, does any, is there any member in the public who would like to comment on the meeting, Max? Anyone in person, anyone virtually? No, okay, so I heard emotion?

[00:01:46] Member Alison Hicks: A second.

[00:01:47] Member Alison Hicks: Okay, all those in favor?

[00:01:48] Member Alison Hicks: Bye.

[00:01:51] Member Alison Hicks: Passes unanimously. Um, really, we're now on item number 4 oral communications. Uh, from the public, this portion of the meeting is reserved for persons wishing to address the committee on any matter, not on the agenda. Speakers are allowed to speak on any topic for up to 3 minutes. Um, and state law prohibits us from acting on these nonagendized items. Um, So, see a member of the public, uh, There's Carney. Thank you. So, I'd

[00:02:33] Public Speaker: like to talk about ending the flow of piped natural gas or methane in Mountain View. As you probably all know, this, uh, stopping methane ending flow has been carbon-free Mountain View's primary goal for the last 2 years. And at this year's Earth Day event in Mountain View, uh, we put this chart out and ask members of the public to put a sticky dot, uh, on the axis of their age, and when they would like to end the flow of piped methane. I put the 1st shot on. 1952, 2045. And all the other dots just... showed up. There were a lot of children who were putting dots near the bottom of this chart, and a lot of adults who were putting dots higher up. And of course, at North Day event, you'd expect there to be a pretty strong desire to be proactive in ending the flow of pipe natural gas. And you can see that that is one of the things that this chart shows. But I think another thing that it shows is that when an organization like the city of Mountain View steps out and says, this is our goal. Let's create an anchor in the minds of the citizenry about what is possible and what will happen in the future. People tend to sort of agree with that. Negotiations, you learn that if you set a high price to begin with that anchors the buyer's expectation of what it should be worth. So this anchoring is just a critically important part of moving the community toward the actions necessary to end the flow of pipe natural gas by any date in the future. 20, 35, 20, 40, 2045. And so I really encourage the city, uh, and this committee in particular, and the staff of the city in particular, to really begin to work on making something like this happen, to make it city policy, that we're announcing to the public that there's an end date for pipe natural gas, and maybe it's 2045, maybe it's some other year. But once that happens, The decisions people make, the investments they make will begin to change. And of course, all the supporting things happening with the air district, with the state building code, with carb, will all, you know, enhance and reinforce the decision that Mountain View makes and publicizes. So, I'm not going to leave this here after the meeting, but I will leave it here until I go home, because this is a chart that's very important to me personally, because it confirmed what I believe, which is that mountain view citizens are extremely forward looking when it comes to climate. Thank you.

[00:05:11] Member Alison Hicks: Thank you. I have no other cards. Republic speakers, are there any virtual speakers? Yes. Yes. Stephanie Lynn. Okay, Stephanie. Hi, can you hear me? Yes.

[00:05:31] Member Alison Hicks: Okay, great. I'll wait for the to go.

[00:05:36] Stephanie Lynn: Okay. Um, I'm here to talk about Ridwell. So Ridwell is a private company that does semi-weekly curbside pickup for hard to recycle items. They currently pick up all through the Bay Area, including neighboring cities like Los Altos, Palo Alto, Cupertino, San Jose. Mountain View is actually an outlier, and that the service does not come here. Once a city has enough local people show interest in the service by signing up on the website. Goodwill will start servicing the city. Um, I would appreciate if the city could help promote the service to citizens so they can register their interest. And I believe that the city should be promoting all opportunities to reduce trash and encourage recycling in Mountain View. That's all I have. Thank you.

[00:06:21] Member Alison Hicks: Thank you. Any additional speakers? Okay, so we are done with item 4 And we'll move on to item five, which is new business. Um, 5.one under that is the scope of services for Cascadia Consulting Group to develop decarbonization goal analysis and climate vulnerability assessment. This item will be presented by sustainability division staff. And is lucky will commence the presentation.

[00:06:55] Ms. Lucky: In who K. Higgs. I'm Rebecca Lexi, the sustainability manager, and we are looking at a revised scope of services for a cascadia consulting group. A little bit of background on it is we discussed this topic last month. At the September council sustainability committee. And essentially, the scope of work at the time was to develop a 2035 climate strategy. During the meeting, there was concerns raised regarding the project timeline, community engagement that was necessary to complete the project, and prioritizing the project's focus on decarbonization. As a result of that discussion, the CSC just directed staff to return with a revised scope of work to focus on the technical analysis and strategies for decarbonization and to complete a vulnerability. Uh, climate overtability assessment. So just to kind of briefly go over what the scope of work changes are from the previous scope to where we are today or tonight. So the previous scoop, um, included developing the 2035 climate strategy, which also included a decarbonization and resiliency strategies. The estimated project completion date for this project was July of 2026. It also included robust community engagement, and the project cost was $433,320. So the project team met with Cascadia, consulting to go over the feedback we received last month, and we were able to reduced the scope and reevise it in a way that includes a more technical analysis. So it's divided. So right now the project's divided into 2 tasks. The 1st task is to develop a decarbonization goal analysis. For 2035 and 2040. And Miss Anderson's going to go over the next few slides after this one to kind of dive deeper into what that work looks like. The 2nd task is to complete a climate vulnerability assessment. So this was in our sustainability action plan as an item to complete. The project completion date is now moved up to being completed by the end of 2025. And there's no engage, community engagement included as part of the project at this time. The project cost also was reduced as a result of the revised scope, so it is now $223,000.05. And sorry, $5. Not 5 sense. And as I mentioned before, there's 2 parts to this work, the decarbonization goal analysis and the climate vulnerability assessment. Thank

[00:09:45] Ms. Anderson: you, Miss Lucky. As Miss Lucky described, the revised scope of work includes a decarbonization goal analysis to help us determine what it would take for mountain view to decarbonize by different target years. So as part of this, Cascadia would conduct wedge analyses for 2035 and 2040. These would lay out how we can decarbonize, taking into account a mission reductions from regional, state, and federal government, as well as local programs, and it'll help us focus in on where we can make the most impact locally. The scope of work also includes evaluating the mission reduction potential of mountain use current policies and programs, and developing a five-year menu of actions to consider for each decarbonization target year. So 2035 and 2040. Um, A five-year timeline just allows us to be more flexible and pivot if necessary if, um, technology, policy market changes, um, occur. Next slide, please. So the other task within the scope of work is the development of a climate vulnerability assessment, which is called for in the city's current sustainability action plan and the council work plan. So this assessment will identify projected climate hazards. And their potential impacts on Mountain View. It will also include a social vulnerability assessment, uh, which will just help the city understand how climate change impacts will be felt across different neighborhoods of demographics. Next slide, please. Um, so under the new scope of work, the decarbonization, goal analysis, and vulnerability analysis, um, are estimated to be completed before the end of 2025, as Ms. Lucky said. And staff will continue to solicit feedback from the CSC and council, um, I key points throughout the project, um, including the review of draft and final reports. Uh, thank you. I'll pass it back to this lucky to conclude our presentation.

[00:11:37] Ms. Lucky: So the desired outcomes for these 2 tasks. Um, it's it's twofold. So for the decarbonization, analysis, it's really to, um, get the city to a point to adopt a more progressive target than our current target for 245. And determine which strategies at a high level that we can undertake over the next 5 years to stay on track with that goal. And then the 2nd part for the climate vulnerability assessment, it's really going to be a helpful tool internally and externally to kind of figure out how to, uh, and it just inform us and educate us about which neighborhoods might be impacted the most into what degree, what kind of elements, storms, heat, uh, so that we can figure out what the next steps are, as far as programming, services, um, whether we need to do further community engagement on this topic to really understand what might be going on in certain or certain parts of Mountain view. So the next steps, the committee could provide a recommendation tonight to the city council to approve the revised scope of work with Cascadia Consulting Group. If, if approved by the committee tonight, then the next step would be to have the city council review the scope of work, which could be in November, and then we would execute an agreement in December, and work could begin in January of 2025. That concludes the presentation. We're happy to answer any questions or receive any feedback. Thank you very much.

[00:13:11] Member Alison Hicks: So do any committee members have questions?

[00:13:18] Member Pat Showalter: Yeah, I guess generally I'm, I, uh, I really appreciate your being very responsive to, um, our discussion. But at the same time, we do have to have mechanisms to communicate this information to the public. So, would we assume that we would do that, because after the, you know, after the, um, uh, report was finished, or, you know, at the draft stage, when we bring it here, uh, and we bring it to council, that would be a way to, uh, Share the information with publicists.

[00:13:52] Ms. Lucky: So it's when and how would we communicate this? Yeah, I think once we get a draft of the analysis, I think that'll be a really good opportunity to figure out, you know, do we want to ask more questions because the menu of options. You know, it's, we don't necessarily need to do all of them, they're going to be very high impact, um, strategies, and it's maybe figuring out which ones are, is the city council most comfortable with. Or if we need to do some level of community engagement to kind of figure out which action. What the community do you most comfortable with?

[00:14:28] Unknown Speaker: Okay, if I may add. Um, I think what we were contemplating was that staff would take on sort of the lead role in terms of community engagement. It would likely happen over the course of the project because we do community engagement kind of nonstop anyhow. And so we would be finding avenues to take in feedback. We would have conversation with CSC as well, about engagement opportunities. And it'll just be that the consultants won't be leading on the community engagement. We sort of know the community best. anticipate that you'd be able to take that.

[00:15:02] Member Pat Showalter: That seems like an excellent plan. And I was also thinking, I mean, like, for instance, Earth Day is at the end of April. And, you know, I don't know how much will be done then, but it's a great time to query, you know, as, as, um, Mr. Carney was sharing with us. The great time to query the community about environmental issues and that kind of thing. Okay, well that sounds like a really good answer. Thank you very much. Any other questions?

[00:15:28] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Yes, so, um, I very much appreciate this, uh, maybe, proposal and, um, timing wise and also cost wise. I guess I'm still trying to Understand the vulnerability assessment. Um, just because, I, you know, our city isn't, I mean, it, it's not very big, and, um, I, I, I guess I just, it, questioning the value of doing this versus just actually going out and doing more, you know, like, can we look at building a, um, you know, clean air center, right? So, because we're geographically, we're not that big. I think going into the neighborhoods to me just seems almost maybe too microscopic. And so for me, it's, yeah, really just a cost benefit issue here. And, um, you're looking at this and then like looking at the, um, the next item. And, and, and, I mean, like, the question I have here is, you know, so that's another one question and I'll have, I have a 2nd question about the funding, but yeah, I guess I'm I just trying to really understand for me to cool this.

[00:16:51] Ms. Lucky: There's a couple of aspects, you know, one aspect is just being able to position ourselves for grant funding, um, some, there's quite a few grants that involve resiliency, like even battery storage and some other aspects where they do want to see a vulnerability or some progress toward resiliency and, and understanding the needs of community. And the other part that kind of touched on the presentation was the internal needs. Um, amongst the other departments that are looking for this vulnerability study to kind of, you know, help them understand. you know, what is the cost, um, for climate change, damage because of storms or droughts. Um, so we've had public works ask, um, You talk to the police department too, just about response times during extreme heat days. The biodiversity plan is another one where they've asked, you know, when are we going to be completing this vulnerability assessment because they would like to incorporate it as well as which plants can really withstand heat? Um, that would be ideal to plant or where, you know, where there's also additional argument where to plant trees because of extreme heat as well. So it kind of helps them match up their data with what we're seeing in the vulnerability assessment. Okay. Oh,

[00:18:15] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: thank you. So my 2nd question is, with the $200,000 Reduction with the new proposal. Is that this is going to the next item, but is that the same 200,000 that's being proposed for the water heater campaign or is that?

[00:18:33] Ms. Anderson: Separate. So, I can ask that. Yes. No, it's it's a separate budget. That was unfunded through, um, sustainability action plan. Yeah, it's separate project than where the budget for they're both within that sustainably fun, but they were both allocated. Thank you.

[00:18:54] Member Alison Hicks: So I have a question. Um, so following up on, um, yeah, branded Koga's question. Can you tell me, I did look a little at this, but maybe you can sum up, but now that Margaret's brought it up again. I looked it up a little in your attachments at cities, roughly our size. Um and what Cascadia has done. Um, Can you tell us what are, do you know what some of the key outcomes of the vulnerability assessment for some of those smaller cities, maybe Pleasanton or something? What were they? What kinds of things do cities of our size, you know, what are the results? And I'll just go on. I'll just go on about it. You know, I imagine it wouldn't be sea level rise because we've been doing that in another vein. And I'm also not sure with our biodiversity plan, are they already doing that? It sounds like you've had some communication with them. I would think they would be looking at plants that are, um, you know, in a forward thinking way in terms of, like I've heard people talk about oaks, maybe not the oaks that are here currently, but ones that are a little south of here, like, LA area or Mexico, because those are the ones that will survive. Um, so are they already doing that? How much would they be depending on you? Uh, to do that, and maybe you can add some detail, our college. Yeah,

[00:20:26] Lucky: I mean, for the biodiversity plan, and, you know, they're obviously taking in community feedback about what does biodiversity look like, thinking about species, um, and they're looking for data, specifically through the vulnerability assessment, just to kind of understand, are there pockets of neighborhoods that are maybe slightly different? Um, because there are those micro kind of climates that you have an education. I know we have very small community here. Um, but then it also relates down to, you know, socioeconomic, um, factors as well, and how quickly can you get emergency services to a neighborhood? How, you know, how are we communicating? And it's maybe not in the traditional sense that we've been doing it over the last 10 years, and even our conversations with police. You know, they've had to find a vehicle that can actually drive through floods. They've never had to really think about that in the last 10 years until the last recent storm events. And so the more we can get ahead of it to kind of understand like what is it we truly do need what kind of, you know, potential emergency response services under certain conditions. Will we require? Is there kind of, um, biodiversity that can help play a role in making a neighborhood or the whole community as a whole be more resilient? I mean, it's a hard question to answer because we don't have the analysis yet. And as far as the other past plans. I think Lauren's done a lot of analysis around that.

[00:21:56] Anderson: Talk to that, but so generally, um, although it definitely varies, um, you know, jurisdiction to jurisdiction, how, like, um, specific and granular they get, but, um, you know, they'll have a list of what are the different, um, impacts they will have in the city and it'll be things like for extreme heat, they'll have, like, how many more days above 90, you know, one. I forget what the exact is, but like 91 degrees. Um, do we expect a year? And then there might also be things where they have maps showing. Um, you know, urban heat island effect. And so like even though the, we have a small city, certain, I mean, we probably all know from walking around a certain areas where there's, you know, more concrete, fewer trees and stuff and they can, you know, layer on different, um, data sets to kind of really understand where are the areas that we should really focus. Um, And for yeah, you're right that we have a lot of sea level rise data already. But, um, there's also some other information we've asked them to look at, which is like, um, from wildfire, like air quality impacts on the city, that's something we haven't really studied. And, um, something else we talked to them about was like the wind from storms and stuff, how we don't really have good data on that, right? That was some of the biggest impacts from the big storms the last few years. Um, And so, yeah, some of the other jurisdictions, they have like the different impacts and then like how many like days that might be impacted, what, um, municipal assets might be impacted by that, um, how many people. And then they usually layer on the social vulnerability data. So like which populations are most susceptible to this, like this might be an issue mainly for, um, you know, aging adults. This might be an issue for children, that kind of thing. Um, you have anything to add on. Hopefully that helps.

[00:23:42] Lee: I can just share one additional example at the county of San Mateo. We did a vulnerability assessment and one of the 1st things that we did with that information was to look at our operations. County, of course, at a county scale, has operations in many jurisdictions, but, um, understanding our operational vulnerabilities so that we could make sure that we had continuity of operations, that we could continue to provide services. So we would look at kind of the critical places where we were providing services and have more tailored plans, knowing the kind of climatic impacts that we could expect. So, There's a variety of things that you can do with the information, once you have it. I triggered another question.

[00:24:24] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: I think you bring up a good and I guess that's what I'm trying to ascertain is the side, like a county, that makes sense. It's, you know, there's more, there's more jurisdictions, there's just more people, and for us at 85,000. Residents, I guess that's what I'm still not. Sure about, whether it's, you know, worth an $80,000 study, like, you know, I've walked this entire city. I could tell you where the trees are and where they're not. And that's again, and to be honest too, as I look at how, you know, we've increased our staff. Um, my question is how much of this can we do in-house too? And and part of it is just that, um, I mean, overall, we're just talking about, um, you know, in various jurisdictions now, in agencies that, um, that were just doing spending a lot of money on contractors, outside contractors, and we have staff, like we have, you know, robust staff now, and so how much of this can we do in house is my question, really. So it's, I think for me more of a, yeah, again, cost benefit. Um, and I understand in terms of grant funding, but in all honesty, like if from my perspective on like the airport or the NTC, a lot of the focus is on vulnerable, you know, care communities, and we just aren't, we don't qualify for that. So I just don't see the funding opportunities as much. Um, and then the question would be, yeah, can we work with the county or clean energy or, you know, some of these other larger agencies that also may have the capacity to do this in-house too. So that we don't have to spend the funding to do it. That's my question.

[00:26:10] Lee: The county has done a countywide vulnerability analysis. And so what ours would be would be just more granulary. So if you think about flooding, for example, like inland flooding, especially we do have pretty robust mapping for sea level rights related flooding, but along our waterways. Maybe

[00:26:31] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: We had done that with the water district when we did the flood basin at the Kelby. I'm so sure they had that data.

[00:26:39] Member Pat Showalter: Well, they do have that data for 100 year floods, but what we're concerned about is that the, um, the, the 100 year flood isn't a good, um, uh, isn't a good measure anymore. And so when you have a climate variability, vulnerability, they try and figure out, okay, what should we be looking at? What's reasonable? And, um, and that, and that's different? So, yeah. Well,

[00:27:06] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: and I guess I would ask then, shouldn't the water district be doing that? You know?

[00:27:12] Lee: Never even seen that, right? All the ways that we predicted floods historically. It's all historic. Sure.

[00:27:19] Member Pat Showalter: Well, and that, except that, accept that. to get... The water district deals with the idea of flooding that comes out of a creek. That's what the water district models. A city deals with how do we get water to the creek? That's what we really worry about. Our storm drain system is typically, traditionally, they were designed to carry the 10 year storm. Now, so that, so everybody's all over the world are undersized. Ours are no different. They're undersized. So the question is, what does a new size need to be? And we don't need that. We don't know that. So, so that's a question that a vulnerability analysis would help. And

[00:28:06] Member Alison Hicks: where is that, is that typically done by cities or is everybody now required to do that? Well, eventually some

[00:28:13] Member Pat Showalter: other. Well, eventually everybody will be required to do it, but I don't know of any ongoing funding source. And so, I mean, every city

[00:28:21] Member Alison Hicks: will be required to do it or some other entity. No, we're going to be.

[00:28:26] Member Pat Showalter: that. That's a really good question to lives in emergency because our stormwater regulations are all dealt with by the regional board. Regional water quality control board. And and so, um, they the people would do that kind of... Well, and they would have to trickle

[00:28:44] Lee: down all of the infrastructure requirements onto it.

[00:28:47] Member Pat Showalter: Right, yeah, they've trickled them all down to the city. So, I think it's a... I mean this isn't a lot of money. But I think that it's probably a good investment. Um, the other thing is to have, um, you know, outside eyes, look at it and say, these are the things that are the most serious in your community, um, from our professional outside, um, viewpoint, could be, you know, the, it, there will probably be some places that are, there are discrepancies between what they think are the most difficult ones and what we think, and that might be pretty thought provoking. That would be valuable. So I don't know. I guess to me, this isn't, this isn't a huge contract. So I, I, I don't, I'm not as,

[00:29:36] Member Alison Hicks: so I'm going to let that go into comments. I'm going to allow because to make questions, comments are very overlapping, but um, but now we'll have public comment and then we'll go back to our discussion. So, news. Thank

[00:29:54] Bruce Carney: you, um, for another 3 minutes. I'm supportive of this measure, and since the conversation seems to have turned toward vulnerability, let me just share a few thoughts about that. So I know that there was a very significant flood in Mountain View near Miramani in Cuesta in the 1950s, which led to the construction of the cross canal from Permanente to Stevens Creek. Too bad they didn't get that done before the flood, but once they learned how vulnerable that part of town was to flooding, they did something about the McKelvey detention base and also proactive flood control measured. Yay, um, I just got my property insurance. It went up 35%. I wonder why Traveler's insurance, thinks that I'm more at risk than I was last year. And possibly it's because of more, more high wind days. So as the inland climate heats up, the difference between the temperature of the ocean, the temperature of Sacramento Valley increases and wind speed increases. I do a lot of my own yard work, and so I'm out and about in the afternoons, and I recognize that it is windier than it used to be. Oakland just dodged a bullet. They didn't have another giant Oakland Hills fire last week, but I remember the Oakland Hills fire, like it was yesterday. It seemed like the entire city was gonna burn down. The wind was blowing from east to west toward the, you know, not the hills, but to the flats where I used to live. Um, that could happen here. And in fact, in Los Altos Hills, they're talking about requiring property owners to make defensible space quite some distance from the walls of their homes. I've cut back the trees that touch my house, but I don't have a big enough yard to do the kind of defensible space that is required in Los Altos Hills. Or may someday be required in Mountain View. As I walk down the Stevens Creek Trail, I notice that we have a river, with a dike on either side, and there could be conditions that would cause that dike to give way, and potentially flooding, if it goes to the Google side, a bunch of nice new buildings that don't have their own barriers built in. So that riverine flooding is probably more of a big deal in the short term and more unpredictable than sea level flooding. Um, And then there's a vulnerability of specific populations. People who live in rent stabilized apartments are going to be very hard pressed to get the kind of climate controlled internally that those of us who own our own homes or are in a condo, or in non stabilized apartments. might be able to get. We're going to have to come up with a really creative way to move large amounts of money toward the owners of rent stabilized apartments so that they can put in electrified appliances replacing the natural gas ones that they have today. So those are just some of the vulnerabilities that I see, and it's a very good thing that the city is thinking about assessing them locally to make sure that we know what's likely to happen or potentially likely to happen. Thank you. Do you have any virtual speakers? Mary Day 2? Mary? Hi,

[00:33:03] Mary Day: good evening. Um, I just wanted to, um, uh, reinforce what, what Bruce said, is only escape designer. I've been to a number of, um, short trainings on, um, uh, fire danger and fire escaping. And, um, one of the things they talk about is that, um, Fire um, embers can spread up, you know, a mile or more with the wind. So you get an ember in the air and it can travel, it can like leak frog over large areas and get caught up. For example, underneath the easier house and and cause damage. So, um, I have been personally wondering, uh, quite a bit lately about, uh, fire danger and and that should be is something, um, I should be concerned about. And I want to echo also what Bruce said about, um, the importance of, of, uh, cooling, um, to, uh, in, in the rent controlled apartments because, um, between, uh, fires, um, which cost so much smoke, um, that people need to stay indoors with their windows closed and and the, uh, more recent, um, heat events. So if the vulnerability assessment is going to include, um, a study, for example, of, you know, how many buildings are, have any kind of cooling, uh, or don't. Um, that is, it seems like a really good thing to know in order to understand where you might target, um, some, you know, remediation efforts. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:34:41] Member Alison Hicks: Any

[00:34:41] Member Alison Hicks: more virtual speakers? Okay, so I'm gonna bring it back to the committee for discussion and conclusions.

[00:34:57] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Um, so again, thank you for doing this. I overall support it. Uh, I think it's much more focused and to the point, um, you know, I know it's only $80,000, but I guess for me, I was looking at this and then the, the next item, and, um, the, the rebate or the idea of a rebate is what I was looking at. And if we could give, you know, a $1000 per person and get help, 80 more people, get a meat water, water

[00:35:30] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: eater. To me, that's tangible. It's actually giving to the residents who, you know, have been very supportive of our efforts. Um, and that's how I was looking at this. So even the $200,000 that we're saving here. If you can, I'd like to see. I mean, I need your support, but, you know, moving over to that campaign, because I really think that we have to just start doing some tangible things here and and, um, that's, you know, I feel their sense of urgency. And so that was really why I was asking about this. I, you know, I understand and it is helpful and important. I guess something I question is, it was again, yeah, I think there are other agencies that should be doing this, frankly, like the water district. So how much of it is it really, you know, the city of having to do this versus Can we put that money toward a different, um, project, like, giving more rebates for, you know, heat pump water heaters. That was really it. But, you know, if the majority supports us, I'm fine.

[00:36:41] Member Pat Showalter: Yeah, I'm supportive. I think the information that we get will be valuable and, um, I also think, uh, it will be good for, when you have, um, a report that you can cite, um, about a subject like this, it is helpful in getting more points for grants, and that's how we leverage money. So, I think for both of those reasons, the real information will get, and how it'll be useful for leveraging for grants. I'm supportive.

[00:37:12] Member Alison Hicks: So I'm actually kind of leaning to putting the money towards rebates because. Um, because I, that's just what I found. I find that people, that's what holds people back and I feel a little, um, wrong-handed talking about this before the next agenda item. But, um, Yeah, I don't see people who are even very, very concerned making the change until burnout and until, you know, there are rebates and mandates. Otherwise, people are just waiting around and wondering what to do. So, um, So I don't really want to throw a wrench in it, I'll wait for someone else to make a motion. Because I do, you know, it's not a lot of money. I find value in both, but I really would like to move decisively on decarbonization, you know, as rapidly.

[00:38:07] Member Pat Showalter: Well, is there a way that we can both increase the amount of money in the rebate program and do this or are the 2 mutually, I mean, is it really in either or or can we recommend both? Um, I'm happy to. Oh, yeah, go ahead.

[00:38:24] Member Alison Hicks: I mean, you know, that's a question. Can we, yeah. Or another question would be, is there, you know, a scale back vulnerability analysis and some more, you know, like a lot of rearranging? We do it in Dallas. I have to take consultant

[00:38:38] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: to do it, you know.

[00:38:39] Danielle: The vulnerability analysis. I don't think we could do in house because some of it is detailed modeling. So when we did it for the county, the heat island affected. Actually, the models produced unanticipated results because of the way that the heat interacts with the hill, that, you know, the spine of San Mateo County, which also kind of continues down through Mountain View. So, it actually was fairly detailed analysis to get this data about like what it might look like at a level, this level. So we wouldn't be able to do that kind of heat island effect analysis, for example. Um, in answer to the question about the funds, though. We do have the reduced amount with the contract, and then the next item that's coming does include funds from a different um, allocation of money. So we could, um, move money within the sustainability action plan to, um, increase the heat pump water heater rebate, assessment, or we could come back, we could just reserve the funds that we aren't putting towards this contract, and then as soon as we start to run low for the heat pump bar heater campaign, we can come back to CSC with the request to move the funds over at that time, to be able to continue the program.

[00:39:47] Member Alison Hicks: So, I have an additional question, is there are cities around us doing this like Sunnyvale and Palo Alto, like vulnerability analysis, would there be a way to pair with them and do something that would be, you know, a little bit bigger, Los Alto's Hills.

[00:40:04] Unknown Speaker: Most of the cities already have one.

[00:40:07] Member Alison Hicks: Oh, really? Who doesn't?

[00:40:12] Unknown Speaker: And require with them. Um, but yeah, just to echo what, Danielle said before, we do have a lot of the data through the county vulnerability assessment, so some of it will be like compiling that and figuring out what. Do we need to like update or make more specific to that? Um, I just also wanted to add about the funding that, you know, at the next meeting in November, we were going to go over the um, sustainable action plan progress, including like what funding we have left over and that might be a good time to do this best. If we want to put more funding into incentives and stuff.

[00:40:47] Member Alison Hicks: Okay, for the discussion, motion.

[00:40:51] Member Pat Showalter: I move the staff recommendation.

[00:40:58] Member Alison Hicks: Um, I'll 2nd it. Okay, okay. All those in favor. Hi. That's unanimous. Um, but I assume that we will also be coming back with the possibility of more money as, as money runs out, but that's the next item. And maybe we can also find out what other city might not have a vulnerability. What other neighbor? Okay. Um, so now we'll be moving on to 5.2, which is the year of the water heater campaign, and this item will be presented by Ms. Rems.

[00:41:36] Ramos: Thank you. I am Whitney Romos. being a really analyst, focusing on outreach and engagement. The background. Of this is familiar to everyone here. We're working towards achieving community decarbonization. Our annual greenhouse gas emissions inventories consistently show building energy as the 2nd largest source of emissions. And from this chart that we've all seen before, we can see how important switching from natural gas to electricity has been and will continue to be to reach decarbonization. And switching to electric, electrification, is needed, and it can be complicated. So through more focused conversations and messages, the year of the water heater campaign aims to achieve deeper engagement. Studies show that people are more likely to switch to electric around the home if they have already have experienced using an electric appliance, and staff sees heat pump water heaters as being a strong gateway technology. Why heat pump water heaters? Water heating is the 2nd largest use of energy in the home, averaging 18% of a home's energy use. The installation process is less expensive and less complicated to install than space heating. The 2027 Bay Area air quality management district regulations prohibit new sales of gas water heaters, making it a higher 1st priority for homeowners to get future ready. And Silicon Valley Clean Energy has been and will continue launching programs that can back up year of the water heater messaging with programmatic and technical assistance. The goals and intended outcomes would be to increase the number and rate of heat pump water heaters installed in Mountain View, to raise awareness and understanding of electrification and heat pump water heaters. Reach new audiences with division messaging that have not been receiving sustainability messaging recently. and create excitement, interest, and word of mouth, buzz around, keeping body ears. Single family and condominium homeowners will be prioritized for outreach and engagement as they can readily make decisions about changes to the equipment in their homes. Homes with solar are particularly strong candidates for heat pump water heaters, along with some other characteristics that we have identified. And families with children, maybe more motivated to transition for health and safety reasons. The campaign elements proposed include developing a heat pump water heater mascot to use in displays and communications. Watson can be dressed up with seasonal and popular cultural references for people to connect with. He can also be featured in educational fun activities such as plush stuffed animal with heat pump facts on his tag or an educational coloring book. Um, next, the campaign would amplify Silicon Valley clean energy heat pump water heater programs locally. There's on bill financing pilots. A pilot, direct installation program with an emergency loaner, and then, of course, the go electric advisor for technical assistance to further support and make the year robust for participants. Lastly, on this slide, um, a mountain view incentive program for replacing gas fired water heaters with heat pump water heaters, would bring insulation costs to parity with gas, would be a temporary one year, incentive during the year of the water heater. And is the concept is for it to be streamlined and stackable with SVCEs. So it's not adding extra barriers and really supporting those who have not and otherwise may not transition. in the next year. Keep it in mind the campaign goals of reaching new audiences. Other campaign elements proposed are placing advertisements through methods that we do not use as much in local government. So geographically targeted, streaming and audio ads so that we know they're only reaching Mountain View residents. A preview at the local movie theater and photo and digital ads seen outside the home are some examples of that. Additionally, we would like to send quarterly mailers, direct those who we've identified have characteristics where they're more likely to switch, as well as potentially in bulk to all mountain view homeowners. An additional campaign element is the in-person outreach themed for the year of the water heater, beyond our traditional annual events, which we would continue to do. Um, such as farmers markets, tying in with youth events to build that excitement within the family, and exploring door to door via contracting with a local nonprofit. Lastly, residents would be invited to participate in the year of the water heater challenge, where they could win prizes and prepare step by step, to convert their own water heater to heat pump. Throughout and at the end of the program, we would evaluate methods and determine which are have been most effective. These could include city permit numbers and or Mountain View specific incentive data, as well as the SVCE program data who for Mountain View is, um, taking the rebates and participating in their programs. We can also use truckable QR codes on the media to see which methods are getting more attention. And use surveys in case studies to evaluate if the level of education has increased over the year. Our discussion question for you today is if you, does the CSC have feedback on the activities and or the proposed incentive for a year of the water heater? Thank you.

[00:47:52] Member Alison Hicks: So, committee members do have questions.

[00:47:57] Member Pat Showalter: Yeah, I have a short list here. Okay, so what's the, um, what's the difference in cost, uh, to operate in heat pump water heater versus a, um, what, the gas one? I think people care about people care about costs. Do we know what that is? Um.

[00:48:17] Unknown Speaker: So there's been studies done for, um, we've done the reach, we've done reach codes about what's the cost difference on utility that you're asking about the bill, right? Yeah. Um, I would say like a few years ago it was like a dollar savings for a single family home that was kind of older. But the technology has, obviously, increased. Like you've got the 140 um, heat pump water heater. So, you know, there is some moderate, modest savings. But it's kind of a wash. Yeah, for the utility bill. Well, that would be, it depends again, like when you're home with adults, you know, and how energy efficient it is.

[00:48:56] Member Pat Showalter: Okay, well, anyway, that's something I think would be, you know, generally of interest to people about how much are they going to save a lot of money with this or maybe that's not the factor, maybe the factor. And then the other one is,

[00:49:08] Member Alison Hicks: even if it's a little safe. Even if it's a little, you know, like that, you save ¢10 when you don't get the paper bag.

[00:49:15] Unknown Speaker: In our conversations with people at tabling events. I think we haven't heard anything about the water heater transition, when people Usually they like it. You know, they have any issue, it's the space heating where they start to notice differences in their bill. We hear a lot on that topic.

[00:49:31] Member Pat Showalter: Okay. And then, um, and then, uh, I think something that would be really good to have as part of this, or do we have a kind of a graphic that shows what are all the peace parts to making this switch? Because, you know, most of us who've grown up with gas water heaters, when you wait until your water heater dies, and then you call a plumber and they come and put one in that day, right? So you're uninterrupted, you know, you don't have hot water for like maybe 8 hours. Well, we know with a with an electric one, that can be more of a problem. And I remember there was something in here about, working with contractors that had, um, borrowable heaters and that kind of thing so that, so, so I think, um, you know, that's one of the questions that I hope we'll be able to answer is, is how, what would the, You know, um, what is the process and, and, and how can this run smoothly and, you know, hopefully there'll be pictures. I love the idea of Watson, that was so cute. Um, and then, um, then the other thing I think that a lot, a lot of people do care about is, what is the, um, uh, the greenhouse gas reduction? Um, and, uh, you know, they're, you said it was 18% of a, Well, families use, that's a lot. But I think people would all, you know, be nice, like, it's taking, it's the same as taking 2 cars off the road, I don't know, but, you know, we see infographics in these things. And, um, He's quite not questions. Okay, another question. One question, this question is, is, is, is there, is part of this to reach out to, um, water heater contractors. How would we include them in the conversation and the education?

[00:51:22] Ramos: We originally included contractors in the scope, and removed it, um, to have the scope be more focused. Um, we would also like to work with contractors locally to increase their knowledge and um, understand their barriers that they're facing as well. It's a really dispersed group that we need to continue strategizing on how best to connect with. Okay. Thank you. Questions?

[00:51:55] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Um, yes. So along those lines, um, that was, uh, what I hear is, the contractors, um, when they come, they say, oh, don't do that. Um, I know that SVC has, like, we have that certification program, things. So the, yeah, game we work with, um, to make sure that our contractors here are not trying to direct residents to the traditional. And then the, I think that the loner program that SUCE is, um, instituting that should be helpful. Um, I don't know, that's a question or a comment, but, uh, has lines, I thought about that. But my other question was the rebate. So it looks like, uh, you know, it's $200,000. The estimated cost for, yes, is 203500. And to replace that to a heat water is 7000. So are we going to give a rebate based on the cost of the individuals? Like, are we trying to close that gap or are we trying to just say, okay, this is a, you know, $1000 per person or per household? How are we?

[00:53:18] Unknown Speaker: Close the gap. And so we're exploring conversations with FVCE to see if they can help us administer it, the programs so that they're looking at the receipts, um, to go through and figure out, you know, how much is. Okay. I mean, if they're eligible and the cost is, you know, 7000 and we match it with another 2000, they're likely to get the whole $4000 back.

[00:53:42] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Yes, that was my question, are we trying to get, um, the full? Yeah. Difference. Okay.

[00:53:49] Member Alison Hicks: Okay. Great. Thank you. So, my question is how you're, how you've been thinking about working with, as far now, like, most people, the only, most people aren't spending their weekends shopping for water heaters. You know, mail. Uh, You know, despite your talk about creating a buzz, like, most people, it probably doesn't have much of a buzz, no matter what you do. So, usually one buys a water heater when one's water heater breaks. And so are you, I would hate to pass, but when your water heater breaks, all of a sudden you really want to go shopping for a water heater. So, I would hate to miss those people, because they, um, so is, is there any way that you're thinking that you're thinking of working with those people, finding those people? Um, like people with older water heaters? Um, has there been any talk about how to, are just blanketing everyone so that they know it's available? Because I'm not sure that the most likely people are people with kids. I think it's people with broken water heaters. That's most likely people. So. Has there been any discussion of that? Um, So, we've

[00:55:10] Ramos: been approaching it with the idea of trying to reach people before it breaks so that they have a concept of this is out there. Here's what I would need to do. And they've started thinking about it before their water heater actually goes out. Um, And then with the challenge where we break it down step by step. And then hopefully, beyond that, we can get people to start thinking about, wow, my water heaters way past its actual life. Yeah,

[00:55:37] Member Alison Hicks: is there a way of checking in on that? What is that? Well,

[00:55:42] Ramos: we would have to, the people have to do it themselves, but we want to promote people to just start to think about how old it is, right? Look at the serial number. like, is

[00:55:51] Member Alison Hicks: your water heater over? I don't even know what. Their

[00:55:54] Ramos: lifespan is supposed to be about 10 years, but everyone I've ever talked to has an older water heater, except maybe the carbon free mountain

[00:56:00] Member Alison Hicks: view electric heat pumps. Yeah, so it would be the question would be, is your water heater over 10 years old, you might want to check in,

[00:56:08] Ramos: et cetera. Mm-hmm. But I, and I would like to think about if there's additional ways we could get into that process when we know people are shopping. Um, and the permit conversations have been useful. Um, trying to work with building to let uh, the community know more about the options that are available. But you are

[00:56:32] Member Alison Hicks: you telling me that you, there's a way to check permits to see who has old water heaters? No, sorry. That would be excellent. People would go...

[00:56:43] Unknown Speaker: No, we've been brainstorming with community development about ways to try to start to get this information. And of course, as people put in, um, electric people qualitators, in some cases, do they not require limits for that. So then we will start to have data perspectively. Um, which will be helpful because we'll start to see who's left. you know. Um, The only thing I was going to add was the loaner program through SVCE, uh, really promoting that and partnering with them to to make sure that awareness is, increased

[00:57:19] Member Alison Hicks: about that. So then my last question on this is maybe I was confused when you said closing the gap. Is that the gap between, um, So, if my water heater is not broken and I just decide to go out and do this because it's a good thing to do. Then, in some ways, I'm looking at that expense differently than it, I'm looking at like, buying this thing I don't really need right now. It's different if my water heater breaks, I'm already like, I'm out. If I was getting hours. $3000. Okay. If I was going to just replace my gas heater, I'd be like, I'm out $3000 and then I'd be, like, my husband would say, hey, we got this flyer for this program, or we can get a heat pump on instead, and I'm like, but that costs my money. And he's like, but you can close the gap. That's when the gap comes in, right? When, when you're deciding to buy one anyway. You know, it's always,

[00:58:24] Unknown Speaker: I mean, I guess, from the outreach of the mailers, and we were trying to put forward all the information, like the emergency replacement, or the laner gas water heater, until you can get your wires, where they need to be, plug in the water heater. Um, it's gonna be, I mean, that's the challenge, right? We're, it's hard to get somebody like right when they're breaking and knowing kind of, but hopefully with the SVC programs and pushing the emergency motor program. Or even the direct install. So that's the program SVC is going to be launching early next year. They have a soft launch that's been going on for the last few months, where you can call, and somebody will come out and water heater, essentially at a fixed price of $7000, um, Or you can use your trusted contractor, um, and go through that process. Yeah, I'd say, you know, it's going to be tricky. I mean, the, and the point is to get, hopefully we think like the thing that's going to get people motivated is the 2027 backmid rule, because if you're thinking about selling your house, if you're thinking about anything about the work, you know, you're going to want to take the steps to position yourself, so you're not scrambling, trying to find a gas water heater that's no longer sold in the Bay Area. So the step is

[00:59:42] Member Alison Hicks: to let people know about that. And then to get people to check the age of their water heater and maybe get them pre-wired. And then get the kind

[00:59:52] Unknown Speaker: of maybe those 4 steps. And even if we got into the pre-wire stage, SDC does offer re dates for that as well. I mean, that's still a win. I'm getting that, they'll be able to picture

[01:00:02] Member Alison Hicks: for somebody who whose water heater still functions. Thank you Okay, more questions or should we move on to comments from the public? once Okay, any comments from the po like Bruce Kearney? Yes,

[01:00:18] Bruce Kearney: 3 for 3 night. I'm so excited. So, I want to offer some thoughts about, um, the transition we're going through with, uh, electricity waters. 2 years ago, they were all 240 volt appliances, which typically meant needed at least a new circuit. Maybe you've been a new subpanel. Now there are a lot of good 120 volt appliances. And this is how plumber gives you hot water the day that your old one breaks. He just plugs it into the same outlet that your washing machine or whatever, something nearby. And you're good until more extensive work can be done if more extensive work needs to be done. That's, that's the beauty of the 120 volt solution. Um, let me talk about incentives. What staff is proposing is simple, but it has the danger that any incentive has, which is people wait till the last minute, in the last minute here is Christmas week, which is perhaps not when you want to have people rushing into the building department. I didn't read the staff report, so I don't know if you incent based on curling a permit or installing, but in either case, December is not really the greatest time to do either of those things. When the state of California introduced the 1000000 solar roofs initiative, They borrowed an incentive concept from Japan, which gave ever decreasing rebates, in 10 steps, going from the 100% rebate, $2.50 per kilowatt rebate, down to $25. So it was a 90% reduction over time. And it wasn't a time-based reduction. It was, a volume reduction. So the state knew exactly how much it was going to spend on the 1000 million solar roofs initiative rebates. It just didn't know when it would spend it. They expected it to take 10 years to use up all the money, but in fact, it took about 6 or 7 because there was more rapid uptake of solar than they had anticipated. So that's one way to make sure that exactly the amount of money the city allocates is exactly the amount of money that is given in rebates, but you don't know exactly how long it will take. The other thought is that you could do a rebate based on the age of your water heater. So, if you have a nine-year-old water heater, you give them a really big rebate because that is the market that you really want to get to before their water heater fails. And if they have a one year old water heater, but because they're very ecologically conscious, they want to replace it right now. Well, they're ecologically conscious. They don't need a big rebate to move them. And one other twist is for a 2 family home, like mine, we only use 2 family, 2 people's worth of water. I'm sorry, not 2 family, 2 people. If you have somebody with 8 people in the dwelling, they're going to use 4 times the water that we are, and the greenhouse gas reduction from a water heater would be 4 times greater than the greenhouse gas reduction from our water heater, which, by the way, is for a 2 person household, it's about a metric ton of CO2 equivalent. And the cost was about the same, electricity versus gas. But there are new rate programs coming from PG&E and SVCE that might tilt it a little bit towards saving money. Thank you.

[01:03:25] Member Alison Hicks: Any virtual comments? Bruce England? Bruce? Thank you. Um,

[01:03:31] Bruce England: yeah, Bruce England, Lisbon Station Drive, is a very interesting discussion. Um, and I've got a lot of questions and comments. So I might turn a bunch of these over following to the sustainability teams so people don't have to try to jot these down. Um, I don't know how much I can even get into 3 minutes, but as many things are in life. This is all complicated. There are a lot of things to think about. And even what Bruce Carney said in the last agenda item about insurance rates going up. comes into play, we all need to spend our money on, um, on different things. And we have to do that sort of cost benefit analysis, then what can we afford to do? So this is something I want to do, but my personally, my water heater is only a couple years old. And so I am kind of in that bucket of wanting to wait it out and wait until I get closer, um, to 10 years. Um, but I also am trying to go through this, um, getting solar panels installed. It's been a real nightmare, I think, as some of you already know from my experience when I've talked to you about it. And just getting things permitted and allowed. I'm in an HOA, and so I have to deal with the HOA as well. So when, at one point, my water heater, I had to get a permit in order for it to be secured properly in case of an earthquake, so there was that. And then, um, with the solar panels, it's how, you know, what is my service level at the panel? And is it high enough for me to add these extra things? Well, it's pretty low in my situation. And so I'm kind of wrangling with the um, with planning over that. And if you add an electric water heater to that, I'm not sure it's gonna work. So even if I can do, you know, 120 volt heater, um, it might be over what I can possibly get allowed, say through the permitting people. And Also, another practical matter is, you know, as tempting as it would be to run an extension cord from my outlet, you know, convenient outlet over to the water heater, I'm sure that will not be allowed, nor would it be a good idea. So I'm going to have to get new wiring. installed because there's not an outlet next to the water heater. Why would there be? So there are, you know, so I'm leaving a lot out here. Um, I'll throw in one last thing, which is renters. I didn't see that in the staff report. I didn't hear in discussion unless I missed it. You know, what sort of incentives will be applied to multifamily communities where renters have very limited, say, and what can be bought? It would be nice to be able to have these things considered in those locations too. I have plenty else and I'm just going to put it in an email or something and send it over to sustainability team and maybe I will copy you members as well, in case you're interested. So I'll stop there. Thanks. Thank you. Any

[01:06:20] Member Alison Hicks: more speakers? Ajandra. Yeah,

[01:06:26] Ajandra: okay, uh, thank you. Uh, I have just a small question regarding to the um, the um, electric water heater, whether we do have a detailed accent plan uh, based on the data, uh, data, what I mean is that uh, uh, whether we know the number of, uh, you know, um, just water heaters uh, existing in a mountain view, and how many game of uh, are going to, uh, you know, to be returned in, or uh, going to uh, end their life on each year so that in each year, how many, you know, gas water heaters will be required to be replaced with the electric water heater. So based on that sort of you know, data. I think if we do have a detailed accent plan, that will provide some sort of information regarding, you know, how much, you know, the financial resources we need and how much, you know, human resources that we will need. So if we do have that excellent plan. So my, uh, interest is whether we do have that sort of a digital excellent plan, you know, to replace the gas water heaters with um, electric water heaters or uh, hit pump water heaters. That would be nice if we do have that kinds of accent plan. Thank you. Thank you Pretty

[01:07:56] Unknown Speaker: much speakers. And more Mary Day too. Mary? Hi,

[01:08:03] Mary Day: good evening. Um, I guess I'm wondering a little bit about the amount of 200,000. Um, And so I haven't had a chance. I apologize. I had a chance to do the math. Um, so I'm sure some of this is for the development of the character and for, you know, the outreach budget and everything else, but, um, We have 85,000 people, so maybe 40,000 homes total, so I don't know how many of those are single family and condos and townhouses, but that's going to be a pretty sizable rebate per house, which would be great, I guess. Um. So I guess I was, I guess really what I was, my real question, it may be one of the, um, the, uh, council will ask this question, um, is about how many homes do we think this is going to affect, and uh, do we think they all have gas water heaters or what percentage of those, um, actually have gas water heaters? Um, On the outreach, um, I guess I'm wondering, I didn't see any mention of the neighborhood associations. I wonder if we might, um, reach out and send an announcement via the neighborhood associations, um, to talk about this program, either by directly contacting each neighborhood association contact and asking them to forward the message, or possibly, um, the sustainability, um, department would consider, um, trying to go like neighborhood association, and trying to identify one or 2 members in each association who would be willing to forward announcement such as this occasionally. So occasionally when there are sit, for example, when there are city announcements that, um, I think affect the neighborhood or interested, be of interest to homeowners. I forward that to my whole Boston Park neighborhood association. And maybe this will be a way, another way the sustainability committee could reach out. And finally, um, I'm wondering if you might, um, to get more information about the age of people's heat pump water heaters, if you might consider, like, having a raffle. Um. Just saying, hey, you, you know, we want everybody to know how old their water heater is, um, so they can start planning to put electric one in. So if you look up your water heater, age, and you let us know. Um, put you in for the raffle and have a nice big prize. I have to word it so it doesn't sound too creepy. But, um, but, you know, that might, maybe that would work. So at least you get an idea of how, how, uh, better idea of ages and and how many people. Thanks

[01:10:46] Member Alison Hicks: Thank you. Any more speakers? Oh, one more speaker.

[01:10:52] Public Speaker: Hello, I didn't realize I had a comment until I heard. Um, a friend of mine in Cupertino is low income, and she and her mother were able to utilize the rebates, and they were able to go electric. They were able to, or about the same cost as it would cost to replace their gas line. They were able to go to a heat pump water hump. What heat pump water pump? And also a heat pump for their air. So it was very good. So I support us having more programs for that that will help people who are not able to afford things like that easily. Thank you.

[01:11:29] Member Alison Hicks: Yeah. Oh, John Scarborough. Have you resident? Okay, last call for speakers of any sort. Our speakers. Um, so do we have, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna 1st ask the question that some of the, uh, people, uh, virtual people got up, but do we have, have we run numbers on, uh, an estimate for how many water heaters we're talking about? And yeah, I mean, so we,

[01:12:00] Unknown Speaker: we're still working through kind of some of the numbers of, like, how are we can get the funds to go, but, For example, if we were to match what SVC is currently offering, so we offered, they offered $2000 for heat pump water heater, we could match that with another 2000 Uh, and if that was the case, and we could do up to 100 water heaters likely.

[01:12:22] Member Alison Hicks: There are way more water heaters in Mount View than we would be. And do we have any estimate of how many or we don't need to bother because we're...

[01:12:32] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Oh, yeah. I think you have 45,000 units in the city and 40% of homes. What is that? 16,000 homes. And then yeah, condos are on

[01:12:44] Danielle: top of that, so. If I may just add to what was lucky said, in some ways, um, we're looking ahead at some of the regulations that are already coming, um, that will affect the entire Bay Areas, you know, the air districts ban on sale of gas, um, appliances, including water heating. And so in some ways, this is a way to bridge, um, our community to that, and on the sale of those appliances in 2027. So that the transition at that point for a community, the same kind of incentive. Exactly. So we don't anticipate being able to actually fulfill all of the need for the community, but we want to make it a smoother process to transition to that market. Have contractors that are better aware of it. Um, have neighbors that have already made that transition, just to kind of see that, so that when 2027 comes, that smoother for space.

[01:13:41] Member Pat Showalter: Okay, so are there comments or maybe questions that were turned? I do have another question. Do we have any statistics on how many war eaters are changed every year?

[01:13:51] Member Alison Hicks: You know that? And then I'll start. Oh, yes, we have permit data that we're currently synthesizing, so we don't have all the data, but we have the water heaters that have applied for permits, so we're currently analyzing the electrification data. Yeah.

[01:14:10] Member Pat Showalter: So I'm sure it's more than a 100 a year. But I don't know that.

[01:14:14] Member Alison Hicks: I can check while we're speaking, actually.

[01:14:18] Member Pat Showalter: Well, anyway, um, uh, I guess my comment is that, um, I do think this is a really good idea. And part of the reason that we want to have an intended program is we, we, we have heard tales that the permitting doesn't move as smoothly as a church. And um, uh, we want to get people to work through the system. And of course, they're more inspired to do that if they're going to get, they're going to get a good rebate so that we get the permitting process smoothed out. And so I feel like it's, you know, that's part of the why we want to do this is we want to have enough experience so that we've encountered all the glitches. And, um, or many of them and, and we, and we know how to work through them. So I think this is a really good idea. I also like the idea of, of, um, adding more money if we need it. I know um, at the water district, we had, um, rebate programs for buying turf. And it depended on the year. But sometimes it was really, really popular and we ran out of the money, you know, like in a couple of months. And so, if that were to happen. I would certainly be interested in, and, you know, can we find money to continue this for the rest of the year or, you know, what's the situation? So I would be very interested. I think that's a good idea.

[01:15:37] Danielle: I would be thrilled to be coming back to you. If the demand for heat pump water heaters was so great that we needed to add more money. That would be excellent. Yeah.

[01:15:49] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: I'm kind of more comments? Yes. So, yeah, I'm very excited about this. Um, I would, uh, definitely, I don't know if we can recommend that $200,000 savings from the 1st item over. I guess I was looking if we could get to half a 1000000 It's just a nice round number would be ideal because, and I know it depends on the amount of rebate, I was just thinking, should we do a flat $1000 and get 500 water heaters out, but, um, I, you know, I'd leave that up to you to decide if that closing that entire gap is, is more important than getting more. folks out, more houses done. Um, but, um, just some thoughts. Oh, and then actually, there's Carney's comments and then what you were saying about this, this sort of, I used people over until 2027 when we have our band. Um, What if we did it then by prioritizing the old water heaters? So go by, yeah, age and you can, you know, start with that question. How, do you know how old your water heater is? and then if it's like 10 years older, we prioritize them 1st and then see where we are with the rest of the funding. Um, and then in terms of marketing, I, um, just, I think the most effective right now, just based on my recent experience, um, digital, digital ads, you, yeah, I know we have YouTube channel for the city, but definitely that, that seems to be very, um, effective. Um, I think door to door is really the most effective. I've been walking other cities and I've actually noticed they they're doing a similar campaign and they have these store hangars that I see. on a lot of doors. Um, I was neighborhood associations came up. What about our cool block members and

[01:17:50] Danielle: getting them to do door to door as a volunteer effort before we go to have to pay people

[01:17:55] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: to do it. Um, and then I would say the one thing with farmers markets is that, um, there's actually a lot of non-residents in that video at those farmers markets. So it's really the city events, the neighborhood association events. And then finally, I think door to door would be helpful because we might need to have those conversations with folks to have that in depth discussion that folks will probably have a lot of questions. So that would be, those would be, and then social, social, digital. Talk suggestion, marketing. Thanks.

[01:18:30] Member Alison Hicks: So let me add to that. I also think we should be using the council neighborhood committing more. as, you know, because we give little speeches there and, you know, a poster or somebody, maybe one group tabling there, um, you know, usually some pretty active community members, and I think we don't use it enough. Um, as I think about this, it seems like because there's a ban in 2027, really the, the most important thing you're doing is making sure that the permitting is what, you know, that all of that functions smoothly for when everybody has to do it anyway. Um, the more I think about it, now, if everybody has to do it, but after 2027, we don't really need to, you know, be paying everybody to do it now. Maybe they're better things to save that money for. Anyway, I'm supportive in general of this, and doing outreach, and getting people started so that we can work through permitting problems, and then maybe coming back later with, like you spoke about with additional incentive, or maybe the incentive with being better reserved, or something else, like, you know, space heating, or something. Um,

[01:19:43] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: what's under the appliance under there too. So, okay. So, um,

[01:19:51] Member Alison Hicks: So do we need emotion care, let's see. So we're just rolling forward this. Doesn't say anything bad about food. Or,

[01:20:04] Danielle: you know... We, we, just would like the community to receive the information and then to provide feedback.

[01:20:11] Member Pat Showalter: Okay. Well, we've done that. I would just, I would just, I mean, I said it a little earlier, but I would just more, I think about it, echo that, but one of the goals of this program besides inspiring people to make this change is really to work the cakes out. Yes. And I'm sure you've talked about that a lot, but that's really a big deal. Yeah. Because, um, uh, if you can get these things, if we get the, if we get it figured out and word goes out, but it's not that, you know, it's not a problem. Uh, then that, that just, that just is, is hugely important. Whereas if, if the word goes out that it's really a pain in the neck and you want to avoid it, it all costs, I mean, that's, that's, that's so counterproductive. So, we really want to get that, you know, the permanent iron out. I agree. Bye.

[01:21:04] Member Alison Hicks: All right. Okay, so we have, so we've, um, We've completed this item, we, uh, We've heard of the information and give them feedback. We are now on item number 6, which is committee staff, comments questions, and committee reports. Um, no action would be taken on any questions raised by the CSC at this time. Do any CSC members or staff have comments or questions?

[01:21:35] Member Pat Showalter: Well, I just like to, you know, take this opportunity to thank the, um, the, uh, the sustainability staff for welcome to host the meeting that we had last Wednesday on the sea level rise, um, uh, on sea level rise protections for Santa Clara County, and we really had a great turnout. We had people from all of the 5 um, uh, shoreline cities as well as NASA. So, I thought that was pretty several council, several council members. Yeah, several council members came. And, um, we had good presentations and and, um, discussions. So I really thought it was a big success. I just, thank you so much for, I helped him put that on. I 2nd that as well.

[01:22:17] Member Alison Hicks: Any other reports?

[01:22:21] Ramos: Sustainability will be at the city's Dia de Marto celebration this Saturday with a friend of honoring past sustainability leaders. So we look forward to seeing the community at that wonderful city event. Thank.

[01:22:37] Member Alison Hicks: Exciting. Okay, so we now move on to item number seven, which is adjournment. This meeting is adjourned. Uh, 722. Texas.

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