April 18, 2023 Council Sustainability Committee

Video

Transcript

[00:00:03] Unknown Speaker: Okay,

[00:00:03] Member Alison Hicks: so I will now call the CSC meeting to order. Uh, this meeting is being conducted with a virtual component. Anyone wishing to address the council sustainability committee virtually, may join the meeting on Zoom. Uh, that would be HTTPS colon slash slash mountain view.zoom.us slash J slash 8266-3619.345 or by dialing 669-900-9128. And entering webinar ID 826-636-19345. When the chair announces announces the item on which you wish to speak, click the raised hand feature in Zoom or dial star 9 on your phone. When the chair calls your name to provide public comment, if you're participating via phone, press star 6 to unmute yourself. We're in person attendees. Please fill out a speaker card, which you can find on the sign in table to the left of the door. So now we're on item 2 on the agenda, which is roll call. Ms. Lee, can you take roll, please?

[00:01:17] Danielle Lee (staff): Certainly, Cher Hicks.

[00:01:19] Member Alison Hicks: Here?

[00:01:20] Danielle Lee (staff): Remember Abikova

[00:01:21] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: here?

[00:01:22] Danielle Lee (staff): And we show up

[00:01:23] Member Pat Showalter: here.

[00:01:25] Member Alison Hicks: Item 3 will approve the minutes. Uh, this would be the CSC meeting minutes for June 22nd of 2022. Does anyone have any comments or questions about the meeting minutes? Um, seeing none. Okay. Yeah, would anyone from the public like to make a comment on the meeting minutes? Anyone in person, anyone on Zoom? Seeing no public comments. I think we just had emotion, like, uh, member show Walter. 2nd by member Abbe Koga. And all those in favor raise hymns. Okay, so past minutes past unanimously. Uh, now we're on item 4 on our agenda, which is oral communications from the public. This portion of the meeting is reserved for persons wishing to address the committee on any matter not on the agenda. Speakers are allowed to speak on any topic for up to 3 minutes during this section. State law prohibits the CSC from acting on non-agendized items. Would any member of the public like to provide comment on an item that is not on the agenda? If so, please click the raise hand button in Zoom or press star 9 on your phone. Those attending in person may turn in completed speaker cards at this time. So, Do we have any in-person speakers on non-agendized items? No, any online speakers on non-agenda site? Then we will close oral communications from the public and move to our discussion and action items. Uh, item 5 on the agenda is unfinished business and there is no unfinished business. Item 6 is new business. Um, and 1st is 6.one building decarbonization opportunities. This item will be presented by the Sustainability Division and Silicon Valley Clean Energy Staff. Ms. Lee will commence the presentation. Good

[00:03:53] Danielle Lee (staff): evening, Chair Hicks. member of the Koga. Um, member show Walter and members of the public. My name is Danielle Lee and I'm the 2 sustainability and resiliency officer for the city of Mountain View, and I'm joined today by staff from the city manager's office. This is the sustainability division and the community development department, as well as a colleague from Silicon Valley Clean Energy. During today's meeting, we would like to provide an update on building decarbonization, opportunities, and hear your feedback on the city's next steps for its carbonization initiatives. The last CSC meeting in June, um, the committee discussed accelerating the city's 2045 carbon neutrality target to a 2035 target. CSC provided direction for staff to develop a carbon neutrality roadmap with phased goal setting. Today's meeting follows up on that discussion with recommended actions for decarbonization, which are essentially the key to achieving our carbon neutrality goals. As we talked about previously, there are a number of strategies the city can utilize to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and achieve carbon neutrality. And the city has made progress in each of these areas. Today we'd like to focus our discussion. Primarily on building decarbonization, where city staff have substantial influence on implementation of strategies. Staff is also currently working on transportation electrification initiatives, such as the electrification of the city's fleet and the installation of public EV charging stations. And we'd be happy to agendas, future discussion, more focused on transportation and decarbonization. As I mentioned, today we'd like to really focus in on building decarbonization. And we have a few categories of topics within this that we'd like to discuss with you. Um, because there are many approaches to advancing building decarbonization. We will touch on policy opportunities, including reach codes, um, of potential replace on burnout policy. Uh, collaboration with PG&E and Silicon Valley clean energy. Direct install program that we have, um, shaped and are waiting to implement later this spring. And then we'd like to touch on community engagement through the cool block program, um, through Silicon Valley Clean Energy grants that the city has received and also in terms of, uh, a focus on equity. And then finally, um, we are also looking at grid capacity and trying to understand in the big picture how those grid capacity, um, either allow for or, you know, provide a block towards our efforts around decarbonization. Um, I'd like to turn the discussion over to Zoe Elizabeth from Silicon Valley Clean Energy to talk a little bit about, um, SVCE's work with cities around existing building policies. Great,

[00:07:11] Zoe Elizabeth (staff): thank you. So, um, I'm going to give a high level summary of these different options and then let you all ask me questions, like get a sense of kind of level of detail that I know we have a lot to talk about tonight. Um, and I also just kind of before going into these for uh, the 4 policy options that are in front of you give little bit of contact. Um, so SVCE went through, big process of looking overarching at the buildings across our service territory, the total number of buildings and kind of looked at the big wide range of different policy options that our local governments might consider that uh help kind of electrify the existing building stock. And those that are in front of you are kind of those that made it to the top of that pile after, um, uh many discussions and some analysis. And talk about each of those, but I think really important. There's 2 big um. Uh, big picture items that kind of frame even the local government work on these right now. Um, so 1st, a few weeks ago, as I'm sure you all are aware, um, I guess maybe now it's about a month ago, the Bay Area quality management district, um, cross past 2 rule amendments, um, council member Abbe Kogo is there, one part of that historic vote, which sets a timeline for the end of sale of, um, gas, water heaters and and space heating across the Bay Area. And so, while Mountain View and many jurisdictions across our service territory have been working on building decarbonization as a means to meet climate action goals and kind of move towards cleaner energy for community reasons. We also now have just kind of an additional reason that it's important, we think, for our cities to begin preparing for this 2027 um point of sale ban. Right? It'd be really difficult for neighborhoods and property owners, um, and renters, community members, businesses, to all of a sudden in 2027 be faced with this really sharp, sharp uptick in the need for electrification, and so we think that there's a role in which the kind of policies that we're here going to talk about today can help to smooth that, that transition, can just really help, um, our community members and businesses. Um, prepare for when this point of sale ban happens, um, in our across the Bay Area and then, you know, likely across the state. That's one. Um peace. And then, uh, and a different note. I'm sure folks are probably aware that as of yesterday, the ninth circuit court of appeals, um, ruled against Berkeley in what has been a long, uh, many years, um, legal process, uh, around their, their gas, um, ban ordinance. So folks may have heard that news. If you didn't, that's, that's the high level line Is that um Berkeley and the rest um restaurants association have been going through a legal battle for a number of years over um, the ability of Berkeley to, if, if their rule did or did not preempt some federal standards on, um, federal requirements. And after a number of appeals yesterday, the court, ninth circuit court of appeals basically ruled against Berkeley. So, this is all moving target, so I just want to kind of mention that elephant in in the room that I'm sure folks are talking about. We had a CCE were kind of pulling together a lot of different legal resources to understand what that ruling does and does not do. Um, and we'll be kind of working to provide those kind of resources that we can with, um, to cities so that you can kind of best assess your, your options. But what I want to just say in um relation to what we're going to talk about today. What is clear is that there's still a lot of different ways that cities can make kind of, I could say, determine your own fate and help your cities to prepare, um, for building decarbonization. Um, that's absolutely clear and there's kind of different legal pathways in which you could do that and as we work with Mountain View and other jurisdictions. Um, we'll kind of be able to help support, guidance, provide information so that you can make the best decisions, um, for your city. And then, of course, you know, more information will be outcoming, anytime a big decision like this comes out, there's lots of different interpretation and um, lots of moving pieces, so we'll all understand more in in the coming weeks exactly where things stand. Um, so with that big picture context, I'm going to talk briefly about each of these kind of policy options. One is a, um, appliance replacement policy, right? So there's opportunities for um cities to say when different policies come to the end of their life. Um, to create either requirements potentially or incentives, um, that, that those appliances are replaced with non-polluting, um, appliances, all electric appliances. We look at that, there's, you know, I'm sure many folks are probably aware that there are other juris, there, there are jurisdictions, um, over in, um, San Mateo County that have been considering, I think, um, Danielle referred to it as retrofit and burnout for a wide variety of appliances and what I'll say here is that, um. There's appliances that are really hard. to do this with, like gas water heaters, that probably make a lot of sense to do at a, um, Bay Area wide level as they're doing with, um, that back controls. And then there's some appliances where this is actually a pretty low lift. So things like, um, rooftop, um, package units on medium sized commercial buildings. Turns out that replacing those package units with electric bag units. Um, almost the same cost as the gas units, that there's a really good supply chain already in place. contractors already know how to do this and it's a pretty easy lift. Um, something similar that anytime air conditioning. Ducted air conditioning is newly installed or replaced. Making sure that that air conditioning is a bidirectional heat pump. Um, Instead of, uh, you know, having 2 appliances, somebody can he, he and cool their home with one clean electric appliance. Also really close to cost parity, something that folks already know how to do in most instances, um, and there's a lot of incentives that can help to bring that cost down lower. So, wanted to give kind of a sense that we're thinking that's what appliance replacement policies are. Um, expansion of definitions for major renovation. Um, the way that I like to kind of describe this policy again in the light of back then, starting in 2027, there's a number of appliances that are no longer going to be available. I know that, um, If I were to do a major renovation at my home, where I'm touching mechanical systems, electrical system, getting into, um, anywhere near that water heater, I would absolutely want my city to say, hey, you should, you know, consider replacing this, um, those equipment with electric appliances now. Maybe give me some kind of policy incentive, make it easier for me to actually replace, um, gas appliances of electric at the very least, um, ensure that pre-wiring is going in. I mean, the last thing you want to do is do a major remodel, and then a couple years later have to knock into that nice fresh drywall you put up to put new wiring. Right? So thinking about just like really common sense ways that we can help communities to actually begin to make this transition to upgraded clean appliances when you're already touching and doing major renovations. It's a big area, um, of kind of how that can be defined, um, that I'm sure that if Mountain View is interested in, we could, you know, SVC could help to think of all the different pathways. Another area is simply um updating and modernizing the permit process. So folks may be aware that right now most gas to gas appliances are don't get permitted. Um, for, I think the numbers I've heard are something like 5% of water heaters um, get a permit. I don't know if that's the case or not. But what does feel pretty clear is that when we move to towards people installing electric appliances for the 1st time, that might require new wiring, there's gonna be a really significant uptick in the permits that um come across your building department's desk. And, um, SVCE actually is we're in the process of launching a program, to help bring additional resources to building departments, so that that is, um, easy both for property owners and for contractors and for your building department staff to meet that new demand, that, you know, that, that permitting is not creating any friction in the system. Maybe it even becomes um, almost an incentive or easier part of the process, um, food permitting. And then finally, um, incentives, so that can both be kind of policy incentives. What are things that we can do that when people choose to electrify? Um, there is incentives within the way that the permanent process works or within the way that the plan check process works or some other process within the city makes it kind of easier for people to electrify. Um, but also, of course, a course, also attached to different um, program incentives. So FCCE we have um program rebates available um for cities and I know that Danielle's going to be talking later about a direct install kind of program. There's lots of different types of incentives that way. That's a high level overview. Thank

[00:17:13] Danielle Lee (staff): you, Miss Elizabeth. Um, I think that we would like to have questions at the very end and, um, I would just like to note that, um, assistant city manager, Shubastova, as well as, um, Ramberg, are here to be able to also answer questions that's needed. So, Next, we'd like to turn, and thank you for the cue towards a direct install pilot program that staff have been working to develop, and I'd like to turn this now over to Denise Lynn, who's the electrification analyst, but it's necessarily.

[00:17:49] Denise Lynn (staff): Thank you, Miss Lee. I'll be providing an update on the building carbonization direct install pilot, as recently mentioned. Um, the impetus behind exploring this is that it can be challenging for residents and property owners to convert their buildings to electric technologies. Barriers include high project cost, lack of information, misinformation, and a shortage of qualified hope contractors to complete these types of projects. Staff recognize these challenges and we are working to support electrification across all sectors from businesses to single-family homes to multifamily properties. This direct install pilot in particular is an effort to support the electrification of multifamily properties. And staff are also prioritizing equity for this project as we are working on refining the scope. City staff has had initial conversations with the vendor to collaborate on this pilot. The intended vendor block power provides streamlined support for electrification projects. And city stock plan to work the software to provide building electrification, technical assistance, financing, and qualified contractors to complete the projects. Well, power has drafted a draft proposal for the pilot, and just some details about that draft proposal. Um, 300 units would receive assistance to install an electrification measure within the unit. And that electrification measure would be either a heat pump water heater or an atmospheric heating cooling heat pump. In addition to those 300 units, there would be another 100 units made electrification ready, meaning that they would have the panel capacity and prewiring to support future electrification. As for funding for this project, the Department of Energy will be opening a grant program. That looks to be a good fit for this effort. DOE is running the energy efficiency and conservation block grant program, which is EECBG for short. And we're working with block powered to develop a streamlined technical assistance grant proposal in alignment with the grant requirements. We're looking to submit an application when the program opens in the summer, and if necessary, stuff can also issue a request for proposals for the project. In closing, this pilot would serve as a helpful learning opportunity in accelerating building electrification. Um, staff would seek to build community awareness, identify best practices, and better understand the barriers to electrifying multifamily children. And with that, I'll go ahead and turn it over to, um, optimously and misfromas to discuss a guest printing pilot. Thank you. Go

[00:20:35] Danielle Lee (staff): to the next slide. Great. The next area of decarbonization that we wanted to discuss with all of you is exploration of a gas printing pilot. So if you think of the natural gas system, kind of as a tree or maybe a shrub, um, pruning really involves bringing in the natural gas system starting from the outer edges, uh, and finding a way to slowly, but in a very sort of systematic and logical way, um, eliminate the natural gas system within the community. Um, and, The unique thing about pruning as it pertains to decombonation is that it happens at the neighborhood level so that you can actually decommission pieces of the natural gas infrastructure. Of course, we would love to decarbonize every single home that we can one at a time. But doing it at the neighborhood scale really offers economies of scale, both in terms of the workforce being drawn to the community, to be wanting to do these kinds of projects. But also, as a way of diverting resources towards maintaining a natural gas system that is quickly becoming obsolete. So, we see printing as a bridge to end of flow of natural gas in the community. And it's important as a proof of concept that we can actually do this at that neighborhood scale. So, um, staff is in the very early stages. of discussing pruning in a kind of pilot basis with PG&E. We've requested data on the natural gas system in the community to find out where the utility is planning to make investments in the natural gas infrastructure. Those parts of the community that are in need of significant financial investment make great candidates for pruning because, you know, the long-term idea would be that, rather than having the utility invest that money into the natural gas infrastructure, they could invest it in supporting the community to electrify their homes. So, it brings in this additional funding source and it can happen at scale. So it can be much more quick in a sense. So, um, we also have our legislative consultants, RPPG tracking this issue, um, as it proceeds through the CPUC because there are certain, um, requirements that the CPUC has in place that need to be lifted or modified to allow the utilities to actually engage in prey. And I'd like to turn it over now to Whitney Ramos, who's our community engagement analyst, to talk about community engagement piece of printing, which is quite essential.

[00:23:14] Whitney Ramos: This approach would require a lot of collaboration between multiple stakeholders, as shown in 5, besides the city of Mountain View, presidents and businesses, utilities, and the state regulatory. need to be involved and work together. Sam will be discussing with the county of Santa Clara, focusing the city's next cool block cohort on implementing deep community engagement in pursuit of neighborhood scale electrification. And The city is well equipped to lead the community engagement with our robust outreach programs and our ongoing relationships with the community at various levels for well decisioned. Next, I will pass over to Ms. Anderson to discuss legislative and study opportunities. Thank

[00:24:01] Ms. Anderson: you, Mr. almost. So city staff is tracking policy and funding opportunities that can support mountain views decarbonization initiatives. And here are 3 highlights. One, as Miss Elizabeth already talked about on March 15th. The air district voted to phase out the sale of natural gas powered furnaces and water gamers. Again, again, 2027. So this really strengthens the case for the city of Mountain View to pursue existing building programs and policies in order to support the community's transition away from natural glass. Second, um, On December 15th, 2022, the CPUC issued a decision to modify the state's net energy metering or NEM program. Which compensates solar customers for excess electricity set to the grid. The former program, NEM 2.0 allowed slower customers to sell electricity at the retail rate, which averages about ¢30 per kilowatt hour. Um, in effect of this month, month, the new program is NEM 3.0, which is based on the avoided cost, the utility of buying clean electricity elsewhere, and it will pay customers about 8 sets per kilowatt hour. So the city submitted interconnection applications for certain city facilities so that they could be grandfathered into NAM 2.0. This doesn't commit the city to solar system installation, but it ensures, you know, we can get the benefits from more favorable payback rates if the system's installed within 3 years. So if applications are approved, the city's gonna further assess the viability of solar and battery storage at these facilities. Lastly, the inflation reduction act, um, through this, um, federal legislation, Mountain View has opportunity to access federal funding, which invests over 369000000000 in climate energy initiatives over the next 10 years. Most notably, local governments can access the financial benefit of clean energy tax credits, which can strengthen the case for solar installations and purchase electrical electric vehicles and chargers, I don't know, some other different clean energy related projects. So staff will continue to monitor the inflation reduction act and other fondering opportunities as they arise. Uh, past optimously. You,

[00:26:24] Danielle Lee (staff): Ms. Anderson. Um, just a few minutes to talk through the next steps. What staff is proposings that we would utilize feedback from today's CSC discussion to develop the outlined and supported building decarbonization initiatives. Um, including the existing building policies, direct install program and pursuing a gas pruning pilot. Um, In addition, I wanted to just point out that staff is collaborating with Stanford Public, the Stanford Public Policy Program on a, on decarbonization planning. So we've been working with students that are all seniors majoring in public policy to do a deep dive and decarbonization opportunities within Mountain View. We've outlined kind of the 1st steps towards decarbonization and they're going to help us think about the medium and longer range opportunities. Um, early in the summer. Um, we'd like to hold another CSC meeting to give an update on the sustainability action plan for, um, before bringing any recommendations to council in June. And then finally, um, staff will be working on developing a full decarbonization plan for CSC and council consideration. Um, as we close out SAP 4, this would become sort of a de facto SAP 5. But with a real focus on decarbonization. So. And with that, we can go to the X, we have time for committee questions. Yes, so thank

[00:28:01] Member Alison Hicks: you very much. That's a lot of information. Next, are there any committee members with questions on this, on this part of the program? Yeah,

[00:28:14] Member Pat Showalter: I have a couple of questions. Let's see if I can find them. Um, one is about, uh, when you were doing the, this is for, um, um, SPCD, Ms. Elizabeth, when you were doing the investigations of parity and cost, um, between things like, um, replacing a, um, air conditioning unit with a heat pump. We had that done, um, not too long ago. We didn't, we never had air conditioning access. So we have a heat pump that replaced our furnace and allowed us to get air conditioning for the 1st time, which I have to say is just great. We don't use it that much, but it's so nice to have it there. But one of the things that, um, I wondered when I heard your parody, is whether or not you, um, put in there the replacement of the duck work, because we found all of the, the, uh, the contractors who gave us estimates said that all of our duck work pretty much had to be replaced or should be replaced. And, um, I wondered if that, when you were talking about, because the, the air conditioning requires, you know, larger ducks. Anyway, did you? Is that kind of thing involved or how simple? How, I guess what I'm asking is kind of how simple or complicated or holistic are these sort of parity, uh, comparisons. Yeah.

[00:29:39] Zoe Elizabeth (staff): Okay, great question. Um, so right now the, the work that we have, have done, particularly on HVAC. It's looking at, it's looking at average cost and average homes, as anybody who knows, that you live in a home, like there's not just one average, right? And so there's definitely work to be done, probably to even think about kind of 4 different city by city, what different building typologies. Um, exist and what, you know, what are the most common places where folks are gonna run into um, additional costs. Um, so, we're we're looking at kind of uh on um big picture averages, to answer a little bit about that, the ducting, deducting question, is um. So, one, there's when you're adding that air conditioning for the 1st time, like you said, that you're more likely to run into needing to update the ducting. Um, I think there's also, it, it's really the, the, if you need to update the data. not a mechanical engineer, so just apologize for my stumbling over this, this is for me talking to, to the folks that, that do the, um, that level of analysis, that this kind of the size of the home and the size of the equipment really matter. And so some of the folks that are really looking into how you can lower the cost of, of electrification, will kind of say, actually, if you kind of over, sometimes oversize the equipment or undersized equipment, kind of, depending on the size, you might not need to update, update the duct ducting. So as we kind of think about doing this at a big picture scale, not only do we need to kind of look, look at kind of different homes and how the costs can change. But also just look at different strategies so that we can really make sure that we're not increasing costs unnecessarily. So probably longer answer that question than you said, like looking at average cost now, there's definitely like lots more information to be gathered as we do more homes. Well, that

[00:31:38] Member Pat Showalter: makes perfect sense to me, but I guess, I know in conversations with, um, uh, with people in the community, when, when we've talked about those costs, they'll say, oh, well, that's, that wasn't what I experienced. So I think it's important that when we describe those costs. We put in a lot of footnotes about what's included. So people know that it's, you know, that it's more of a broad brush thing and they don't. They don't come back at us and you told me it was going to be cheaper and it wasn't kind of thing.

[00:32:15] Zoe Elizabeth (staff): That is such a really, really important point and that there's often going to be edge cases too on either side. I was talking to somebody the other day and it was super easy for them to elect to buy their home. They'll talk to somebody else. It was really difficult and it's important that we share. Um, and and probably have opportunities and caveats for the instances where it is really hard that people have additional support. Yeah. Okay.

[00:32:38] Member Pat Showalter: Um. So why doesn't somebody else go and ask because I need to look for the other. Okay,

[00:32:43] Member Alison Hicks: well, I have a relate. Do you want to ask? I have a question related to the one that you just asked. Yeah, I was interested in, you know, I think, uh, that, uh, that membership Walter's question was about was under your category of low lifts for, um, electrification. And, and I was wondering, well, it seems to me, and this is jumping off of membership, Walter's question, that low lifts depend on the conditions in your house and house or apartment and what you want to do next. Um, so I would, I'm wondering if you had a longer list of possible low lifts. It was kind of a a short list. Um, and whether it would be possible to do, uh, education or interaction with a homeowner to, to determine really which of those low lifts are the lowest for that particular homeowner. I don't know if you have any comments on that. Yeah,

[00:33:46] Zoe Elizabeth (staff): well, what I think, uh, I'm hearing too is like, you're right, like depending what you're doing next in your home, so if you're touching an area of a home where maybe it's more connected to your HVAC system or there's some reason, maybe for some homeowner, it might be easier to do HVAC than to do their water heater or something like that. Um, so what we have talked about is doing something like electrification, offering incentives for electrification planning for homeowners to help them kind of determine that. Those decisions, um, and we will be launching a concierge support service soon too to help homeowners kind of walk through that, that planning process. Um, but I'm also just thinking out loud as you ask that question. I'm wondering if within that remodel, kind of policy threshold, if there's a way that the, um, policy could be shaped so that it naturally led folks to, to towards what was next and what was easy. So if you're, you know, when somebody's coming in and they're doing uh, a kitchen remodel and if there was a requirements about making sure that there was pre-wiring to the stove. Maybe that's a way of getting to the thing that's easiest. Does that answer your question or? It

[00:35:02] Member Alison Hicks: does, and I think it's an ongoing process, um, and I, You know, from talking to neighbors, and I don't want to term this just, I don't want to talk about this just in terms of homeowners. It would be apartment owners and, um, I have my sister is a small apartment owners. So that, that and we have Sunshine Gardens is a local apartment where the, the, uh, people who run it really want to electrify. So I don't just mean homeowners, but frankly, when I talk to people, most of them are my neighbors and homeowners. Um, Another thing that they talk about, that people have talked a lot about, particularly because of the storms recently and the long power outages, is how they can electrify and get some resiliency for those kind of occurrences on the same, at the same time. through things like, um, maybe some sort of battery backup for some portion of their home, such as the kitchen, the refrigerator, a cooktop. And, um, Mr. Kearney, who's in the member of the public out there, in our audience now, uh, pass some information on about uh, cooktops that come, I guess they're in a startup phase, but cooktops that come with uh, batteries. And I also talked to a local appliance dealer who talked about hooking up, maybe multiple things, particularly your refrigerator in the kitchen to backup battery. And I don't know if it seems like that might be something that we would want to communicate with residents that could be done at the same time. Yeah,

[00:36:39] Zoe Elizabeth (staff): it's a great idea. Yeah, that's like the copper is the name of the company that has that battery backup induction cooktop. Um, and not to plug an event, but we are planning to do an event for elected officials on June 15th, and we have heard that we will have a copper demonstration. Sorry, Margaret, direct drive by COVID, just for your fender there. Right? We hoped it copper to have actually have that induction cooktop there to demonstrate it. So, uh, I think it's a great, a really great idea, and we, um, it's a reminder for me to also plug. We do have a program with Sunrun that, um, helped incentivize batteries in, um, homes, so. Talking about those things in conjunction makes a lot of sense.

[00:37:24] Unknown Speaker: Other questions?

[00:37:28] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: So, um, thank you for the report and thanks, Zoe, for being here. Um, my 1st question regarding the appliance replacement policy. So, um, the Bachman, uh, rule amendment goes into fact, uh, 2027, um, and then with me you're engaging in a study, um, that should be done by 2025 to ensure that we are ready to actually implement. Um, are we looking at a policy that would be in, um, timing wise in step with, lock fence rules or are we looking at a policy before? I think the idea,

[00:38:12] Danielle Lee (staff): thank you for the question, remember, I feel like. I think the idea was to have a local policy that would roll out in advance of the Buckman rules, and this is why Ms. Elizabeth was focusing on the low hanging fruit now. And so the most cost-effective appliances. We would start with that. Mostly for a proof of concept that we can do or replace on burnout type policy and that can work and actually ease the transition towards these point of sale bans that are coming. So we see it as a way to prepare Mountain View for these future policies that are going to be happening at the regional and then statewide level eventually. So the sooner we do it, the kind of longer the adoption pathway can be for residents, the smoother the transition can be. So we'd like to do it as soon as we can, but, you know.

[00:39:00] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: I guess that might, then the concern, um, is, you know, frankly, and we, we had overwhelming support at Bachmed, but we did have some opposition and the, the, the, um, frequent, uh, reason was that we're not ready, the, the grid's not ready, and, and so that's why we're engaging as a study. And, you know, if by chance we are not ready. Um, we're ready to buck in, was ready to, Extend the time. Um, so that's just my concern is if the study were to say, no, we're not ready as a, um, how would we as a city? frankly, off ramp on that. Certainly.

[00:39:42] Danielle Lee (staff): I think What I would recommend that we do is kind of borrow a page from what Bachman has done, they have off-ramps for the policies. And so, um, we could similarly design something to that effect that had an offer. if we found the market to be not ready. And, um, But we did kind of come up with these initial list of recommendations based on what the market could already support. So as starting point, you know, this focus on cooling in particular. Um, it would be a small subset. of all the natural gas appliances. It's just a starting point, but it would be a way to get our feet wet and to start looking at these kinds of policies. I don't know, Miss Elizabeth, do you have anything to add to that? This came out of a policy kind of discussion with SBC. Um,

[00:40:31] Zoe Elizabeth (staff): yeah, I think I think that's, that's right, is that, you know, and that the low, the lower lift appliances that we were mentioning are also like they weren't the heat pump water heat, they weren't water heaters. It was, but they might be, if you do through, um, remodel or other things, but you wouldn't be capturing like all of the water heaters or all of the appliances in Mountain View, but it would be more than are just incentivized. So I think, um, that's the way that it starts to slowly ramp up to hopefully get the whole system ready by 2027. So

[00:41:07] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: are we looking, so for um, the rules, the mock bed rules, it was for water heater pumps and um, space heaters, but not yeah, um, stovetops, would we look at doing stovetops or, Like to me, I don't know. I feel like stiff tops may be actually the lowest hanging, the easiest replacement. Um, I know it's a little more controversial, but frankly, we went all electric on new buildings. So, like, would that be more of a starting point because I, I, from the, all of the studies we read, the water heater is definitely is, can be challenging. Maybe the space heater is not as much, but we had ours replaced and it was an $8000 difference, so there's a cost issue here, right? Um, so yeah, so I'm thinking is gas or stovetops even, uh, even more, um, easier

[00:41:58] Danielle Lee (staff): to go. Thank you for the question. There are different ways that these policies can be easier hard. I think on the financial front or the technical front, like whether the workforce or the equipment is there, is one kind of lens, but there's also the cultural norms and the kind of difficulty of just achieving change, right? Like our practices. And so people, um, have expressed more affinity to their stoves than their water heater. They just love their stove a lot more than they really ever think about their water heater. And so, the ease of adoption just from a cultural, like a change management. practice kind of makes us think about the stove. We can certainly continue to look at that if that's the direction that CSC gives. Of course, there's room. And I think the health impacts related to natural gas appliances, you can achieve the most kind of gains, if you will, when you start to address the stoves. And so there's certainly many compelling reasons to do it. Um,

[00:43:06] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: and then the other question was regarding, um, the cooning. So we actually, I'm on the ledge committee at Air District, and there is a bill that we've recommended to support, um, The Senate Bill 527 by Senator Min, the neighborhood decarbonization program, and I'm trying to understand, so this says that it would direct the CPUC to come up with a program to allow for this to happen. And so, I'm just wondering, if, It looks like maybe there are, like you mentioned, some barriers to CPUC, um, that doesn't allow it at this time. Um, so do we need to like wait for this to pass? before we can implement the program. Um, Thank

[00:43:59] Danielle Lee (staff): you for the question. There are some barriers in addition to this legislation that you mentioned, there's also the obligation to serve, so that the utilities are required to provide natural gas service to all the other customers. Um, What we would like to do is to start to gather information and to conduct community engagement around electrification so that when the pathways clear, we'll be ready to move straight into implementation. Um, Neighborhoods can voluntarily. eliminate natural gas. Maybe a block, like if we had a cool book. at a block leader and they wanted to eliminate the natural gas on their whole block. There's nothing that would preclude that from happening as it is, just the natural gas infrastructure, one of the decommissioned, some of the other pieces wouldn't follow until later, but there's nothing to stop the initial stages of that work. And it does take quite a while. And so even if the CPUC where it change its rules next year, we might not be ready to have a project to go either way.

[00:45:04] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: So the bill says that it actually requires CPC to ensure that, um, like it's doable, right? That no one will lose, um, power. So, that's, I guess, the piece that I was questioning is that, does the seat be easier? Somebody had to come in and say, all right, there's adequate service, alternative service, um, to cut off the gas. So in order to, I guess, yeah, that's the question is, it sounds like we might have to wait for this determination or direction. before we can actually do a program. We've

[00:45:42] Danielle Lee (staff): also been engaging with PG&E to understand more about the grid capacity within mountain view, because I think a lot of it is constrained by the grid. And so if we, if what we're trying to do is identify other pathways to enhance great capacity within the city. It's just so early that we don't have any solutions yet. to bring to you, but those conversations are underway. So we're sort of trying to pursue all the pieces of decarbonization simultaneously. How do we engage the community, start to get by in and build momentum. How do we look at the system itself and start to understand the capacity constraints there and bring solutions forward for that piece as well. And then the regulatory frameworks that are inhibiting it for now. Can we track that legislation, be active in terms of supporting bills, it would enable. Decarbonization. So we've already met with Ms. Gilmore, our legislative lead, to have, um, tracking on this issue kind of across, you know, both the legislature and the CPUC. So we're trying to pursue all these pieces in the hopes that we can weave them together.

[00:46:53] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: So then I guess I would request or I don't know if it's a question or a comment, but if we can look at SB 527 and see if, um, we can take a support position. Great. Thank you. And then, you have another?

[00:47:07] Member Pat Showalter: Yeah, in addition to that, um, today I was asked by, uh, some environmental group to support a bill that would require bidirectional batteries and EVs. And apparently there's 2 AVs now that have them, I think, or maybe three, certainly the Ford, um, the big Ford truck and a few others do, but it's not and Tesla is saying they will be doing it next year. But anyway, that's a place where you can essentially augment the grid with your own EV car. And that seems to me to have a lot of potential because we do have a lot of EV cards around here and we're working hard on the, you know, on on increasing our, um, distribution of EV charging stations, which is great. Um, I wanted to understand a little bit better about what you're expecting block power to do. So as I understand it, you can tell me if I got this, right? As I understand it, they're kind of going to be a, an, a consultant that is, um, sort of provides concierge service or, or consulting services to individuals when they go through these projects. They're not going to do the project, a contractor is going to do the project. But they're going to explain what needs to be done and kind of all the pieces to sort of de, um, mystify the process. Is that correct? Thank you, member

[00:48:42] Danielle Lee (staff): Schalter. That is correct, although I would say that they play a slightly more active role than what you described, at least as they've put forward in a draft program. Oh, good. So what is it? So it's, I like to think of them more as a turnkey solution. So they will, and this is focused on multifamily properties. So they would work with them, multifamily property owners. Um, all the way through the process and they actually do work with local contractors to install the electrification measures. So it's really all the way through until that unit is actually electrified or at least has installed one electrification. So they

[00:49:22] Member Pat Showalter: sort of function as project managers to get that done. They also bring

[00:49:26] Danielle Lee (staff): the financing. They do some of the community engagement. Now I think I get it. All right. And

[00:49:31] Member Pat Showalter: then the other question I have is about this grant that we're applying to for the EE. What is it, ECVG? EACVG, exactly. Too many alphabet soups around here. anyway. Um, the EECBG. Right. So we, as a as a community that's larger than 35,000 people, we actually have a certain amount of money that is essentially assigned to us. Yes. And so we are applying to get that. That's not, okay. It's a

[00:50:04] Danielle Lee (staff): block grant, and the amount for mountain view is just shy of $150,000. Right. And so it's

[00:50:12] Member Pat Showalter: not going to do the whole job, but it'll help.

[00:50:14] Danielle Lee (staff): Right. That amount is what would cover the draft proposal from black power to electrify those 300 units. And then, um, have 100 additional units be electrification ready. Um, That's that scope of work that was described would be covered by the EECBG block grand amount.

[00:50:37] Member Pat Showalter: Do we already have some apartment buildings in mind? I mean, for we have a lot of different apartments in our community, and some of them are quite small, as some of them are very, very large. So do we have, okay, in mind or are we more about, we

[00:50:56] Danielle Lee (staff): didn't limit, um, the size of the multifamily property in our initial discussions with blood power, just because, um, you know, part of it is driven by interest for the multifamily property owners themselves. And so we didn't want to sort of preclude.

[00:51:12] Member Pat Showalter: So that's how we're going to, it's going to be interested parties. Do we have interested

[00:51:17] Danielle Lee (staff): parties stepping up? Yeah. Well, I think, uh, Charity. Sikes mentioned Sunshine Gardens. And so we would certainly reach out to them and we'd love any other recommendations that the committee has. Um, additionally, we will be working with blood power to look at census data for the city and look at neighborhoods in particular, um, that are more vulnerable, um, maybe economically disadvantaged. And so we are also working with them to develop how we can have an equity focus within their limitation.

[00:51:50] Member Pat Showalter: Okay. And then, then I think this is my final question on this, is about the, um, the pruning of the PG&E. I'd never heard that term until I read this report. very interesting. And it makes perfect sense, but, but, um, I wonder about the, uh, sort of the size of pruning that is expected. I mean, is this something you do, you know, 9 houses at a time? 100 houses, 300 houses. I mean, what's sort of the order of magnitude about how this would work? Or do we have that defined yet? I have no idea yet, which is why we've

[00:52:28] Danielle Lee (staff): submitted non-disclosure agreements to PG&E to be able to access their database. And then once we start to see kind of the size of their capital projects, you know, like it depends on how big is the stretch of natural gas pipeline that they're looking at upgrading. Maybe it's only a block long, or maybe it's a very short segment. So it... Because I can imagine. I can imagine there

[00:52:52] Member Pat Showalter: could be security implications with this that we would want to be careful. Okay, very good. I don't know, Miss Elizabeth,

[00:52:58] Danielle Lee (staff): do you have anything to add on that? You have seen some of the data as we seen as access to this data. Talk about later.

[00:53:05] Zoe Elizabeth (staff): Yeah, so I think the the neighborhood that PG&E has started with. I think the 1st one that they did was like 4 houses because it was a really long. You can imagine that's where it's most cost effective. It was a really long run to like 4 houses. But now they're moving through getting approval to do another one at um Cal State Monterey Bay, which is a number of properties that one property owner. But I think the concept is that it could be done um, and and eventually will be done in every different kind of neighborhood. Um, but the kind of cost benefit will vary based on the state of the infrastructure and the number of the homes.

[00:53:49] Member Alison Hicks: I have one last question about clients replacement policy. I'm wondering about the, um, The policy will address, uh, mandating versus maybe suggesting versus educating. And I, one of the reasons I'm thinking about that is an example from the past, I know many of my neighbors feel that they were encouraged to get rid of their their natural fireplaces and put in gas. And then they put in gas all over the place, like gas, barbecue, gas everywhere, thinking they were doing the spending 1000s of dollars and thinking they were doing the environmentally right thing to do. And now they're told they should get rid of all that gas. And so, I think, uh, education that kind of says, I mean, I think we were miseducated in that case, but that shows where we're going next is important with homeowners and apartment owners. There's, there's one thing to mandate what you do next, but there's another to kind of tell you where, where we're probably headed next, so that if you're in there doing rewiring, you don't, you don't do, for example, what a lot of my neighbors did, of thinking they're getting ahead, I'm being really environmentally right. and doing everything wrong. So, um, so that's one, I don't know if you have comments on that. But I think that needs to be part of a policy to acknowledge that there's more than just mandating. There's a lot of education around where we're going next. And I see that, I have to say, I just walked into an appliance store and there's no education. I was looking at induction, uh, ranges, but they were willing, totally willing to, you know, bring me over and show me a new gas range without telling me at all that that might not be something that would be serviced in the future.

[00:55:45] Danielle Lee (staff): Thank you, Cherry Hicks. I would say that community engagement is, um, and should be always our 1st step, really talking with the community, providing resources, educating them, um, about where we're going, as you mentioned, before we would move towards mandates. I like to also have incentives before mandates. So sort of like 1st engage and educate, then provide some incentives to smooth the transition and help early adopters. And then ultimately, we do have other policy levers that we can pursue that would kind of get us across the finish line if you will. So, but in that order, um, and really, a soft touch that engages the community from the very beginning. I was very drawn to mountain view because of its robust community engagement efforts through the multicultural engagement program. Our team has brought on a community engagement analyst to really focus solely on that. And so we're very glad to have Ms. Ramos on the team as well. So it's certainly a priority for us. Okay, maybe more

[00:56:48] Member Alison Hicks: in conference, but those are my questions. Do you have another question? Okay, let's go. Okay, last call for committee member questions, then, um, are there any comments from the audience on this item? First, uh, members of the public who are here in person? Evening,

[00:57:28] Donna Davies: everyone. Newcastle members and city staff. Um, This is really exciting, uh, for me because the topic that you chose to discuss tonight was one of the recommendations that I worked on, uh, uh, when I was serving at the environmental sustainability task force. Uh, decarbonization of, of, um, existing buildings. residential buildings. I've sent an email to most of you, and I hope, uh, you had a chance to read it. I just wanted to emphasize a couple of things that I mentioned in my message. And that is the, um, incentives and the education of the public about decarbonization and electrification, from my experiences, both in my previous house, and my current house, which I'm going actually through electrification again. Um, There are a lot of details that are missing in the education part. that is not reaching the public. My block, where I live on Bush Street. I have 3 block homes. There are, you know, few doors down from me. And unfortunately, when I talk to 2 neighbors that have the block, the cool block, uh, signs, The neighbor told me that, There's no way that she would go from natural gas stove to an induction stove. So, in my mind, the insistence on going to very specific types of electrical appliances can backfire. If you can make it so that it's a looser requirement. It's really just to encourage people to electrify anyway. They can deem, uh, suitable for their house and and their setup, I think that would be much better. And my house induction did not work. Um, I have severe tendinitis. I can't lift big pots, so I have to use 10 pots, and that does not work with induction. But I did switch to electrical all the electrical right away. The heat pump is another big, big one. Uh, the, um, the depths and the size, um, and on cool mornings, many times the heat pumps do not work. And what friends and neighbors I've known, uh, they use a gas, That heat pump. I don't know if you've ever heard that, so you put a heat bump. And then if that doesn't work on cold mornings, the gas, the natural gas pump, that's, I don't know, built into it will kick in. And so it's, it's, that's not, that's not what we want. Uh, we should really uh, provide good information for them. All these technical issues, you know, good heat pumps that can withstand the cold weather when it's 30s and 20s in the morning. Um, that we don't need a gas backup. Um, So there seem to be a lot of details that are missing for the outreach. Last thing I want to see, SBC incentives, and education. That needs to be beefed up. I've been in touch with them with, um, Miss Jessamine, Alan, who is the program manager of SBC rebate program. There are lots of things that are really in there. I could dove into that. Thank you very much. So now Bruce Carney? Thank

[01:01:16] Bruce Carney: you, Bruce Carney, Mountain View resident. I would like to start with the conclusion. I hope you will make, which is to say yes to all 3 of the staff requests. They're well thought out, they're necessary. Um, and moving on from that, um, let me comment on, uh, there Hicks statements, we should tell people where we're going. Well, we're going to a fossil fuel free future. Or. We're going to a future where many parts of this planet will be uninhabitable. We're already, we're not really in a cusp. We're there at the we're at the beginning of that. I believe it was 12 people died of heat stroke in India on a mild Indian standards, April day, today because the humidity was high, humidity is high because warmer oceans put more humidity into the air warmer carries that humidity to where people live. Like, Fort Lauderdale. 22 inches of rain in less than 24 hours. Mayor Fort Lauderdale said no city could prepare for this. Many cities will need to prepare for this. Like the same thing happened in Houston 4 years ago. It happened in South Carolina 2 years ago. It's going to happen maybe in Los Angeles, maybe in San Diego, maybe in. We can't tell. But, um, You know, the huge nature of the change in front of us means that the response has to be equally huge. So, Carbon Tree Mountain View would love for the city council to decide to tell the public that no later than 2045. Pipe natural gas will not be allowed in the city anymore as Half Moon Bay has done. However, acknowledging the challenges of converting from natural gas to electricity. I believe that on-site propane tanks in one's own property should be an allowable path forward. Propane is a fossil fuel, but why is it better than natural gas? When it leaks, it has less than a 10th of the global warming potential of methane. And so propane is not a wonderful fuel, but the cost to transition your natural gas appliances to use propane is quite a bit less. Orders of magnitude less, frankly, than electrifying. Because we've had natural gas in California for so long. Many of us who've grown up here have lived here a long time, are unaware of how common electric water heating, and electric space heating is in other parts of the country, like Hawaii, like the southeast. In fact, last year for the 1st time, pump, Furnaces surpassed gas furnaces in sales in the US as a whole. So although the appliances that we need are out there. We have very expensive electricity in California, which makes it economically less desirable here than it would be in other cities, other communities. But SVCE and others are working on lowering the cost of electricity. So that problem may get solved. Thank you. Thank you. Now, Daniel Shane. Hello. Um. Hard

[01:04:31] Daniel Shane: before you, some comments, I have some questions. Um, and The 1st thing that I had on there was an idea. Uh, When I worked with EPA. We found that having technology fairs, was really good for public engagement, public education. Bring the experts out. They bring their toys and their tools. Um, I will help a lot in educating the public on all the different methods and measures they could take to decarbonize. Um, I don't know if that was part of your plan to begin with. We did a lot of those. Um, So that's good for outreach. Um, Also, I had a question about the, um, grants. Um, in grants be used, either federal state grants be used. to buy expertise. I mean by that is to hire, uh, staff members, planning staff members, and others who have expertise in architecture, engineering, environmental science, and things like that. Because I do see that there is a weakness in the city's framework or organization with a little bit of lack of expertise in some of these areas. And I don't know if you can use that kind of grant money for that. to bring in the expertise that city might need. To move forward with obvious decarbonization projects. Um. So I don't know if there's an answer to that right now. Can grants be used for that? Yes or no? So

[01:06:19] Member Alison Hicks: we don't we don't use the public commentary as question and answer period, but we do take notes and we are listening to you. We will follow. Thank you. Um, I'd

[01:06:30] Daniel Shane: like to make just a general comment that I believe that the city of Mountain View and many other cities undervalue the importance of the natural environment, and the integration of the natural environment, and its ecosystems. wildlife habitats, with housing developments. We're saying kind of wholesale removal. Of small urban forest. And highway vegetation barriers along our highways, which are critically important as a barrier to protect homes from tailgate emissions from cars and trucks. Um, yes, we understand that, As a society, we're moving towards electrification. But there'll still be. I mean, that's years away. And right now, as we speak. These barriers are being removed. Um, actually clear cut, exposing the freeway. And all the air pollution that comes from the freeway. exposing the people who live in homes nearby. And That just seems totally unacceptable to a lot of us. So I thought I'd mention that. So

[01:07:42] Member Alison Hicks: I think there's a flaw in our system and that the number of minutes you have is behind the speaker's head so they can't see. Yeah, you got to tell your time is up. I'm sorry. Come back next step. I'll just keep talking. I know. Thank you, Daniel. Um, so do we have online speakers for trust? Oh, is there somebody else in person? Thank you. I don't have your name here, but tell us your name.

[01:08:10] Katie: This is my 1st time to a government meeting, so I'm not used to this person. Um... No, sorry, sorry. Um, um, Anyway, so uh, this is my 1st time at a government city meeting, so it's wonderful to be here. Hi, everybody, and thank you for Bruce, who runs the climate group, who sent the email out to bring us here. Um, so my name's Katie. I'm a local Mountain View resident, but I'm also an environmental psychology and behavior change specialist. And what I just wanted to seed in everybody's minds who works on this that I feel is missing from a lot of these projects is basically what I call like a Fitbit for the planet, which is a number, like a real-time number that tracks the progress of where we're at. Like, You may have seen this continuous glucose monitors that people have been wearing on their arms. Have you noticed them? Okay, so think about those, the fitbit that people wear. Um, anything like uh, um, when you're driving and there's a sign that shows you how fast you're going or whatever. These feedback loops that signal data to people profoundly affect people's behavior. And so I think in the engagement tools that are rolled out, if you can just have a think about, is there a tracker on the mountain view website that says, how many houses are fully electric? I mean, there are about 35,000 households, is that about right? Do we know how many of them are fully electric? Like, That number should be up from front and center. as a way to really engage everybody, the professionals, and the community, but not just for gas or for what's, um, for percentage of houses that are electric, but also for the carbon emissions that come from electricity, and possibly if for fuel as well. This is not a super easy thing that you can easily work out. I've been to the end of the line with these data systems to figure them out and they're not easily available. If they were, we'd probably already have it. But I just want to put out there as you're working through them, just as you're working with these data systems. Have think about, can we put this like a Fitbit on the front of the website? in our campaigns, because there's a wealth of behavioral research that shows that you can get magnitudes, more engagement and behavior change when you have these, these numbers that just really tap into our dopamine systems and motivate people to change. To you, that timer goes quickly. Um, yeah. And, um, the other thing which may be a bit of a far, um, a far reach, not necessarily reach, reach code reach, but, um, The disclosure of carbon emissions upon the sale of the house. I have a hunch is a really opportune space to work in, that these carbon emissions of the, you know, how much they've used from gas or how much of electricity at that point of exchange from one homeowner to another could be another really key point to consider in all of the policies. So that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Is

[01:11:16] Member Alison Hicks: there anyone else here in person? No, okay, online, do we have speakers? And who is our 1st speaker, John Scarborough? Okay, John? John Scarborough. Hello. Am I coming through? Yes, we can hear you. Excellent.

[01:11:36] John Scarborough: Well, thank you for, um, working on decarmonization Mountain View. It's really great to hear. And I'm glad that multifamily housing and equity are being considered. Because, you know, we have about 60% of Mountain View residents rent, as you probably know. So, um, I'm hoping that the programs will be beneficial because it's, you know, and I say we can bring the whole community along and, you know, have everybody decarbonizing their residences and, you know, being more sustainable and more resilient. So I support all 3 of the options. And, you know, as you go forward, I would encourage you to look into things that will be beneficial for getting the large apartments swapped over, to, um, more resilient and more electric, uh, use, and also making it easier for tenants in smaller, um, housing units to, uh, work with our landlords to implement changes that might be available to other homeowners. And Generally, keep up the good work, and thank you very much. Thank you. And

[01:12:42] Member Alison Hicks: our next online speaker is Robert Ma'am. Robert Mayo, you're next.

[01:12:49] Robert Mayo: Hi, I'm Robert Mayo. I'm a resident of Mountain View. Um, personally, I like to express appreciation for the work of all the people working on this issue. I think it's very important. Um, and I'd like to ask the committee to move all of these initiatives forward with the urgency and scale that they deserve. Um, and briefly, I'll 2nd the idea that was expressed by a previous commenter for a tracker. I, I know that's a very powerful idea. Um, I'd like to comment on the scale of the block power project, um, which appears to be set by the size of the available grant. Um, and if I heard the discussion right, it appears that each unit costs about $500. Of course, you know. There's the block power financing and incentives and all those other things. But, um, given that, that appears to be a reasonable cost, um, is there any consideration for increasing the scale of this pilot? And it would also be very interesting to know what percent of mountain view, multifamily units are covered by this pilot, because, um, I guess it's a pretty tiny amount. Um, so is it possible to scale that to a larger program? Uh, secondly, um, as far as pruning goes, um, boy, it's really necessary, but it seems like there's a huge number of unknowns and a lot of moving parts that have to happen before a successful pilot is done. So considering that, um, a big unknown, in my mind, would be the, uh, the homeowner education and basically, you know, convincing people to go along with it. Um, So given that, is it possible to work on 2 of them, uh, perhaps with different homeowner engagement strategies, uh, so we can more quickly discover what works. Um, Yeah, those are my comments and thank you again for the work you're doing. Married. That Mary, Duchy, who is next? Yeah.

[01:15:04] Member Alison Hicks: So, Mary Davio, you're next.

[01:15:07] Mary Davio: Hi, um, I'm excited to see all this, um, we're moving forward and um, I urge you to, um, say yes to all 3 questions proposed by staff. Um, couple comments as you work with block power to electrify multifamily units. I hope that EV chargers for apartment buildings and multifamily units are part of the scope. It's especially important from an equity perspective. I know we're talking about buildings today, but transportation is our biggest greenhouse gas causer. Um, It is, I don't know how many of you guys have electric vehicles. It is so easy to just come home and plug the thing in. Um, let's let's, I want everybody to be as fortunate. Um, My neighbors have, uh, know that I've already electrified, and so I hear from a lot of neighbors as they're getting beds from contractors and there does seem to be a lot of problem with, um, finding contractors with proper expertise, such as, was mentioned, suggesting gas backups where heat pumps, which aren't necessary if the heat pump is sized properly. So, um, I heard, uh, mention of a possible concierge service, um, and something like that could be helpful if it offers information to homeowners. I don't know, to be certain that the solution of contractors recommending will make sense, or is there some way that a homeowner could come and say, here's the solutions being proposed. Is there any, you know, glaring mistakes with this or, or something the contractors could use so that they're sizing things properly and they're not undersizing. And the other thing that's really important about sizing things and especially designing for energy efficiency is, um, as we move forward, you hear all this stuff on the news. Oh, is the grid gonna be big enough? It's not big enough, you know, um, one of the things we can do. Um, from the system, overall system perspective is to make sure that we are designing things and implementing systems that are as efficient as possible, because, I mean, just with every other appliance, you can have really efficient heat pumps or you can have less efficient heat pumps. So if we push people to be more efficient. For example, maybe replacing the old duct work that doesn't have any insulation with new duct work that does. That's going to save 20, 30% of the energy, that house is going to use less electricity, less of a burden to the grid overall. So, um, urge you to keep some of those factors in mind. Oh, and the last thing I did want to mention, 2 things about, requiring people to electrify on transfer of property. It separates like the emer- you don't have an emergency situation. So there is more time when you're selling a property to actually go, you know, get the thing wired and, um, Because you're, you know, you're not going to run out hot water while it's happening and there's money available when a building is being sold that could be spent on something like this. Thank you. Thank you. Other

[01:18:12] Member Alison Hicks: speakers? Ogre, isopher. Olger Eisenberg, you're next. Should

[01:18:25] Denise Lynn (staff): be unmuted. Ah,

[01:18:29] Eisenberg: with the, with a plan to move away from gas as power source. I'm wondering what are the plans to increase service availability for electric power here in the area covered by SVCE. For example, the availability here appears to be much lower than standards now in European countries, that is 59 and is a solution to place battery storage in homes or investments in the network or what other plans to increase the serviceability availability for electricity. There you go. Thank you And

[01:19:02] Member Alison Hicks: again, we don't answer the questions now, but we do take notes. No more Lexpiers. Okay. So last call for online speakers. I'm hearing there no more. Oh, sorry, one hand one. Kevin Ma. Kevin Ma, you're next.

[01:19:20] Kevin Ma: Evening committee. My name is Kevin Ma. I guess for the gas screening item. I guess the question that comes up is, what are the city's plans for any, if there is a future natural gas main replacement, for example, Palo Alto did one in California Avenue, the question of, if that does happen in the future in Mountain View, if it's unplanned, what other cities plans to deal with that? Because any installation now is considers a fossil fuel infrastructure that lasts quite a while. Or if there is like a pre, Plan like list of neighborhoods already on queue to, have theirs replaced, maybe it's time to review those should be pruned 1st. And for long-term financing because the block power pilot is inherently a pilot, we later need to figure out a more long-term, um, hunting source. I guess I wonder if the city has looked into potential on bill, tariff, tariff on bill financing, which I believe was only legalized starting last year. So, that could be a potential to, uh, smoothen out the financing for people who might not be able to take the, take a loan or a massive cash withdrawal at once. Thank you. Thank you. Any

[01:20:35] Member Alison Hicks: other last speakers? Okay, so we will close down public speaking. And uh, bring it back to uh, the committee. Oh, did you receive the one final? There's one leader card. There is, from the, oh, Donna Davies. My

[01:20:54] Donna Davies: comments are on there. It's fine

[01:20:56] Member Alison Hicks: Comments are written. Uh-huh,

[01:20:58] Donna Davies: they're written.

[01:20:58] Member Alison Hicks: Okay. You don't want everyone to hear them? You want to

[01:21:01] Donna Davies: come up and say them to everyone? Okay,

[01:21:04] Member Alison Hicks: we will read your private comments later. Okay, so I think we're closing down public speaking now. Um, and now is the time for committee discussion. Are there members of the committee who want to start off discussion?

[01:21:28] Member Pat Showalter: Sure Walter? Sure. Good to see the question. Thank you. Um, I was just gonna follow up on what we talked about, uh, the, uh, you know, we want to educate, we want to provide incentives, and then we might want to go to regulation. I think another thing in all of these things that we want to do is we want to celebrate the successes. For instance, um, I remember there was a report several years ago about how much, how much money and electricity, the city had saved through all of the efficiency measures. And I forget what it was. But it was a lot. So I think that's one thing that should sort of be brought up to our attention on a really regular basis. And by the way, we've saved, you know, it was 1000000s of dollars. I mean, it was not a small enough life that we could say because, um, you know, for people, people are, people want to do the right thing. I think most people want to do the right thing. But people, but everybody loves to save money. So, you know, always bringing up, you know, what the, what the, um, savings are financially, I think is something we should just kind of, you know, put into the formula, what we're doing on a other basis. And, um, You know, I was really pleased to see all of these things. Um, I, uh, some of the things I, I don't, I don't know if they're generic in here, for, for instance, 2 week, um, conversation, communication, it was called Collaborate Mountain View. Do we have a program called collaborate now? Okay, we do. Well, I get need I need to sign up. I need to sign up and get educated about that. Okay. Um, Yes, I think that this is an excellent idea and um, I'm always a part of, uh, of moving forward on, um, assessing the feasibility. And I'm really pleased also that, uh, this isn't something we're going to do now and we're not going to hear about for another year. We're having another meeting in like 2 months, right? That's particularly good, yes. Um, sure. I

[01:23:48] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: was actually just going to say yes to all 3 just to beat it up. Um, and um, yes, I, I, I think the key to this is gonna be outreach and communication. Um, And, um, someone mentioned, like, clean it, SPCE. We do have quite a few incentives, we go on to the website, they can even show, you know, help you take out a appliance and whatnot. Um, I'll be honest. I didn't know they

[01:24:18] Unknown Speaker: sell us what we had. And so, and this

[01:24:21] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: is the other piece was, you know, we had an emergency, our heater went out, and we had to replace it right away, and that was the challenge was that a lot of this has to be done up front. And we have to get all the, you know, the approvals. And so yes, when you have time to do it, it's great. But I guess that as we've talked about all a lot of this, um, the issues that, I mean, a lot of times folks don't think about it until it's an emergency, water heater goes out. have to go, you know, go replace it. And I think that's where we're finding the challenges. Um, And I think something that I'd like to, for us to maybe look at is, um, like it was mentioned, most people don't get a permit, I guess, for a water heater, gas water heater replacement, but I think we require that for electric. But I've heard it takes some time. A couple days or 3 days. And most people can't wait that long. I know like clean energy, we talked about this, um, loner program. Which is great, but I guess it's I've been rendering, what can we do as a city to really streamline the process so that you can get that permit right away when your water heater goes out. So I would like to look at that and yeah, what is the city's role in making this easier for folks to do? And then going back to education, just, um, yeah, just, you know, letting folks know that we have these programs and, I know, clean energy. We're working on that too. Um, but just making it accessible, more accessible to folks. Um, especially, um, you know, I do think of the equity piece, there is a cost to all of this. So whatever incentives are available. And there are, there are some, many that are focused on lower income folks, so just making sure that folks know that that's available. Um, so, and then the other thing I would just say is that, um, yeah, we have air district, we have car, there's so many entities now and, and it's, I really think it's, you know, it's very important that we coordinate and collaborate together and not, um, duplicate efforts and just, you know, be additive. So, um, I hope that, yes, that we can just be mindful of that. But

[01:26:46] Unknown Speaker: other than that, I'm really excited

[01:26:48] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: that we're moving forward on these initiatives and um, yeah, I, I, I, I, fully support them. So thank you and thank you to staff for all your hard work. Yes,

[01:27:00] Member Alison Hicks: so I'll say I'm going to say yes to all 3 questions just to tell you ahead of time. Um, and I've been excited as I've been communicating with

[01:27:11] Katie: you about them over the, over the months. Um, I, I

[01:27:15] Member Alison Hicks: want to really, so I want to agree with what remember Abi Koga just said, but I also would like, I would like us to think in very creative ways about education and outreach. Um, for instance, I've noticed when I go to the different appliance vendors, I'm on the market for a range. Did I tell you? Um, You know, they, There's no notice when I walk in the door that there are some thoughts of phasing out gas or that I might want to look at an induction range. Absolutely none. So if I weren't thinking about this, I could buy a new gas range. And then, you know, several years from now really regret it. Um, uh, if I'm, you know, busy working and not thinking about all this very much. So I would really like us to engage with our vendors in the city. Um, in terms of whatever it takes. You know, we also have downtown, we have, uh, a gas fireplace or a fireplace place. You know, we could put the, there's all sorts of innovations in electric fireplaces and space heating and all sorts of things, and that should really, I believe that, you know, because they're in our downtown, they should really, we should encourage them to promote that. Otherwise, they're kind of misinforming the public. Um, so I would like to see all sorts of ways of get being creative and putting that education out in more places than just, you know, our website and our newsletters. And I'm wondering with the, um, you know, the fact that you need a permit to change to uh, uh, an electric water heater, but not a, a gas one. Should we change that because permitting the gas one, I don't know if that's possible. But that would be another point of contact to be able to tell people. Maybe you really want to switch to, um, switch to an electric one if there's any way of of doing things like that. Um, I liked the comment earlier on, on bill financing, if that, from a member of the public, if that's possible. I don't know how much we're looking into that because I think that can make things more you are looking into. Okay, make things more affordable for people. Um, I also liked what Ms. Alshwani said about, uh, talking about not just kind of top of the line induction ranges, but all, all the different possibilities you have for changing, um, cooking. You know, I've seen people be attracted to it because of the, the air fryer quality or, you know, there's just a lot of different cooking options. And I think that's true with, um, with heating options too. There's like space heating and there's a number of options. So giving people multiple options. Um, and I do. I also like the idea of loners now while I'm shopping for a range. I do have a couple of, of, of, I have a cooktop on loan and an Instapod on loan and all sorts of things. So, um, so I like the idea of loners that kind of bridge people over and give them time to make those decisions and just anything and everything we can do to, um, make this transition as easy as possible for the multiple kinds of people. that we have living in mountain people. So are we going to go individually through questions 2 and 3 or do you want to, maybe we can take questions 2 and 3 at once? Because that you only spoke to question one because that's all you were asked.

[01:30:51] Member Pat Showalter: I support question 2 and 3 as well, yes.

[01:30:56] Danielle Lee: Does this make function, make emotion? chair, I believe this is because this is discussion. We've captured the feedback. Okay. So are there hearing

[01:31:10] Member Alison Hicks: what each other have said? Are there final comments or are we winding down? It looks like we're winding down. Okay. So, um, we are now moving to item number seven, which is committee staff comments, questions and committee reports. Do you have any of these items from committee members or staff members? Um, My

[01:31:40] Whitney Ramos: comments, thank you, is the city's earth day celebration. Is this Saturday and we'd love to invite everyone to bring out their family and friends and join us from 9 to one at the community center and Renstorf Park to enjoy interactive activities. There'll be a biodiversity strategy engagement activity for the community for anyone who wants to get involved with that, educational speakers and much, much more. So we'd love to have you there. Hey,

[01:32:10] Member Alison Hicks: Daniel, I want to call your attention to that one. So biodiversity is traveling, because I know you want to engage on that, I'm always caught.

[01:32:18] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Oh, and now. Remember Abby Coco? Thank you. So Zoe mentioned it earlier, but on June 15th, the cities association of Santa Clara County is partnering, thank you with Silicon Valley, Clean Energy, and Drake Venture, Silicon Valley. Um, to, we, so the city association does an annual, we, we used to call it annual meeting. We going to call it annual dinner, I think. Um, where we bring in or invite all of the council members, staff, um, from all of the cities, uh, to talk about an issue or have a presentation. And so this year, um, decided to focus on, um, um, clean energy and, um, we also try to make it fun. So this year, we're going to have a cooking demonstration with induction heating, and it's going to be at the last office community center that is now all electric. Um, although I think they're bringing in the the actual stove. Um, but it was, um, it's our attempt to show folks to educate, especially, um, you know, council members who are making these policies on reach codes and whatnot, um, that induction heating works and it can taste good. Um, as when we did the reach codes. You know, some cities did exempt gas stoves. So we went all electric and bet some cities did it. And so we're just trying to educate and to show folks that you can cook with induction heating and um, have a good meal. So, um, so that so we, um, you'll get invitations to that. I'm not sure if we're opening up to the public. It was a membership meeting. Um, but yes, at least uh, council, city staff and council will be invited. Thank you.

[01:34:11] Member Alison Hicks: Maybe you can get your whoever's doing the demonstration to do it at one of our local appliance stores.

[01:34:17] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: Yeah, I know the, um, Clean Energies has a chef. So, yeah. Or they found the chefs that can do this. So, um, yeah, we'll see how it goes. Okay, good. road.

[01:34:35] Member Alison Hicks: Sure, Walter, did you have an announcement? No, you had a reaction to an announcement. Okay. So last call for announcements? Seeing none, this meeting is adjourned at 735 PM. City Club. Thank you for the noises. Is everything super big? It

[01:35:05] Member Margaret Abe-Koga: was so awesome. Yeah, it was bigger. Hey, Daniel, how are you? Oh,

[01:35:11] Ms. Anderson: thank you.

[01:35:18] Member Alison Hicks: Thank you.

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