August 27, 2024 Special Meeting of Mountain View City Council

Video

Transcript

[00:02:12] Mayor Pat Showalter: I'm going to call this special meeting of the Mountain View City Council to order. Welcome, everyone. This feeding is being conducted with a virtual component. Anyone wishing to address the council virtually, may join the meeting, online, at, um, or by dialing in, and entering the webinar number, when the, when we announce the item on which you wish to speak, uh, please raise your hand, and zoom, or, uh, or dial 9 on your phone. And also, if you're wishing to speak tonight, I hope that you have filled out a blue card. If not, now is a good time to do that, and please give it to the clerk. Okay. Well, everyone, thank you so much for joining us for our closed session. We'll have a closed session announcement, and then the city council will welcome public comment on the closed session. Thank you. City attorney?

[00:03:16] City Attorney Jennifer Logue: Good evening, mayor and city council members. There is one item on this evening's closed session agenda. Item 2.1 is a public employee performance evaluations pursuant to California government code, section 54957 for council appointees, city clerk, city manager, and city attorney. And I also would like to announce that there will be no closed session report out at the conclusion of the meeting as no final action will be taken in close session this evening.

[00:03:48] Mayor Pat Showalter: Very good. Thank you. All right, before we take public comment, I'd like to read a statement about the burring owls. The city of Mountain View remains committed to protecting wildlife, guided by our burying out preservation plan, which was adopted in 2012, and our shoreline wildlife management plan, which we just adopted last year. The city is seen as a leading agency that goes above and beyond to increase the population of brewing owls and other wildlife in Mountain View. When the city's staff biologists went on administrative leave in early July, staff immediately went to work to find contract biological services to provide burrowing out care. This included coordination. reporting, and monitoring while our employee was out. It took time to identify the qualified consultants, develop the scope of services, receive and review proposals, and draft agreements. This process has been completed. Agreements are under review, and they will be executed soon. It's not the intention of the city to replace the full time biologist with contract services. Rather, as an interim measure, contract services will provide the monitoring reporting that is typically completed within the shoreline while the full time biologist is on leave. In the meantime, critical burrowing owl care has continued, including transition of the boring owls for the overwintering program, feeding, and volunteer projects to maintain and enhance the burrowing owl habitat. On Saturday, August 10th, city staff coordinated with the Santa Clara Habitat Agency, providing them with immediate access to our enclosures, to transition their brewing aisles as part of the juvenile overwintering program. City staff met with Santa Clara County Habitat Agency reps on site to assist, and the agency reps thanked our city staff for the coordination and collaboration and ongoing success of the program at Shoreline. This is consistent with the city's past practice. City staff has been trained by the shoreline biologist, and those staff continue to feed the owls in the enclosures for the two weeks after being released. following the city's typical protocol. In the months of August, four volunteer events were held to enhance the habitat within Shoreline. These events will continue to be scheduled in the future. City staff have temporarily paused projects at Shoreline that would require approval of a biologist until appropriate services are established to ensure our wildlife safety. These projects include maintenance and safety repairs of the landfill infrastructure, which are required to meet our strict regulatory compliance. Once on board, the contract biologists will work with city staff to conduct project evaluations so that needed projects continue in a timely fashion, but that we ensure the safety of our burrowing owls and our wildlife. The city staff is aware that the California Department of Fish and Wildlife has found that protecting the Western Burring Owl under the California Endangered Species Act may be warranted. The State Fish and Wildlife Commission is expected to vote on whether to advance the boring owl to candidate status at its October 10th meeting. If the burring elk becomes a candidate species, the Fish and Wildlife Department would have 12 to 18 months to conduct a full status review before the commission votes on an endangered or threatened designation. We're committed, we are committed to this, and we are communicating with new local California Department efficient wildlife biologists to gather information about this process, and how a change in designation would impact the city's existing policies and procedures. The city is committed to following any new regulations that come from a possible status change of the brewing owls. Staff will present an update on the Brewing Out preservation plan and the wildlife management plan to the Parks and Rec Commission at their up ketamine meeting on September 11. Mountain View has a long history. of partnering with the Santa Clara Valley Audubon Society and other conservation groups, and looks forward to continuing this collaboration. Thank you for listening. Okay, so now we're going to start our public comment. Would any member of the public joining us virtually, or in person, like to provide comment on the closed session agenda? If so, please step forward, or click the raised hands, button on Zoom. Each speaker, um, will have a minute, and how many speakers are there? Can you raise your hands?

[00:09:01] Unknown Speaker: wls though.

[00:09:02] Mayor Pat Showalter: unclear of what you're saying. We don't have another, because this is... Let me explain this a little bit. When this agenda item came out. This meeting came out. It was really designed to just be for the closed session for the evaluation of our appointees. And so, we didn't put a regular public comment period on it, because there, you know, there wasn't going to be, there weren't going to be any other items. But we recognize that the public is very concerned about this. So tonight, we're going to invite you to speak on the owls, so that we can hear your concern. So this is really a sort of a special procedural situation, and we're just going to make the best we can of it. Okay, so with that, I would like to request that people who would like to speak, and have turned in a blue card, please come forward. Clerk, do we have anybody who's turned into a blue card?

[00:10:11] City Clerk Heather Glaser: Yeah, can you, do you see the list on your screen?

[00:10:14] Mayor Pat Showalter: No? I do not.

[00:10:16] City Clerk Heather Glaser: You want to call the first person? There it is. There we go. Ah, there they are. Um... Daniel Desordo.

[00:10:27] Daniel Desorto: Hi, my name's Daniel Desorto, and I've volunteered with the Guardian Project for the past three years. A large portion of my work with the Guardian Project has been wildlife and conservation photography. So I actually wanted to share some photos from the site with you guys.

[00:10:49] Unknown Speaker: Can you speak into the microphone when you get back? Cheers. Thanks.

[00:10:55] Daniel Desorto: The lead biologist on the project, Phil Higgins, has emphasized the importance of responsible wildlife photography and interaction with the burrowing owls. The conservation of the owls has always taken priority over getting the perfect image. Fill in the guardian project, have provided a way to see and photograph the owls at Shoreline, while minimizing the potential negative impacts of people venturing too close to the boroughs. Without a permanent lead biologist, the guardian project in shoreline or losing a vital source of accumulated knowledge about the individual pairs of owls on site. Right now, the consistent counts of owls and chicks aren't being performed, and this is a key way of measuring the continued positive population growth. Additionally, many of the measures to prevent predation and direct contact with the public are not taking place. Each day that this continues represents a threat to the burrowing out population at Shoreline. Population numbers had just begun to bounce back, and the program was experiencing the greatest positive growth in all numbers since the project began. I hope the Mountain View City Council will rein...

[00:12:09] Mayor Pat Showalter: Thanks for your thoughts.

[00:12:15] City Clerk Heather Glaser: Tim Dobbins. And after that, we'll be Celia Palmer.

[00:12:21] Mayor Pat Showalter: Well, hi, Tim, I haven't seen you in a long time.

[00:12:23] Tim Dobbins: Yeah. Oh, mayor. How about you? I am Tim Dobbins, a longtime resident of Mountain View. I am one of at least four people here this evening who were at Shoreline, this morning, waiting to help our friends, the owls and the monarch butterflies. But mostly, I would like to add my appreciation for the work of Phil Higgins. I have worked with him at the Owl Habitat, and Grassroots Ecology events at Shoreline for years now. Not only can he recognize every creature, bird, plant, and insect, and mountain view by name, he can talk at length about any one of them. But more importantly, he can gather a group of strangers to do unpaid physical labor outdoors, convince them that they are having fun, while doing a great job, and have them all eager to return at any time. Thank you. Very much.

[00:13:35] City Clerk Heather Glaser: Next speaker, Sylvia? Welcome back.

[00:13:45] Sylvia Palmer: So I'm going to actually speak on the agendized item of the closed session. I sent a comment as well. Basically, what was it, 2021, we had our vision setting process. We had so much community input and engagement, and it made me really excited that to see all of these thoughts and ideas and optimism coming into our city's strategic plan and work plan, and when I look at the strategic priorities, they are, we made a choice not to prioritize them individually, but to represent all of them as a community sort of set of goals and guidelines. And I just don't see a lot of the action that's coming out from city staff reflecting them. So we get volunteers that are told, no, they can't work on projects. We have projects that have been approved through city council that aren't being completed. We have projects being changed after the community input. And so all of this is really sad to me, because I think, just a few years ago, we had so much potential, and I'm not seeing it happen. And I know that at city council meetings, I see it still as our goals, but it's not happening. And so I'm really sad about that. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

[00:15:11] City Clerk Heather Glaser: Tracy? Barria, and then Gail, um, Stevens.

[00:15:18] Tracy Barria: Sorry, I made up three minutes because that's what I read, and I don't come here very often. I'm sorry.

[00:15:25] Mayor Pat Showalter: It's a minute and a half tonight.

[00:15:26] Tracy Barria: Okay, yeah. Well, I'm gonna cut my tanks. But, uh...

[00:15:34] Unknown Speaker: Talk into the microphone, because there are people listening at home. We are.

[00:15:38] Tracy Barria: think it's ironic that, with all the stuff we have done as a council, that now we have no biologist, we're in the middle of the sixth great extinction. Our owls are about to go on the endangered species list, while the city discusses its vision of biodiversity. The biologists are key to smart implementation to the plans. They can't be just hired off the street. And it might be easy for a bureaucrat to write off the response, as it's a bunch of volunteers, that just love to work with Phil and Ryan. However, that's far from the truce. Shorelines management's words, uh, given last October, where Brady said, I quote, I personally attest that his knowledge and the knowledge of the wildlife and habitat for us has been invaluable to the city, We are very fortunate that we have someone like Phil that helps shoreline moving forward, but also keeping all the wildlife safe and habitat protected and in good standing. It is a delicate balance out here, and we couldn't do it without Phil. Brady understood Phil's institutional knowledge. You can't just replace someone who wrote their masters on our local burrowing owl diet, has worked caring for our owls for 23 plus years, with numerous publications, and critical research on them. I'm pretty sure it would be easier to replace the bureaucrat whose port decision led to this, and to the cutting of our volunteer hours. As a resident voter, and volunteer, I'd like to ask the council to rectify this situation, restoring the expertise and volunteer hours. And I know with your courage and leadership, we can save our owls for the next generation.

[00:17:29] Mayor Pat Showalter: Wow, thank you. Thank you. And thank you for your leadership.

[00:17:34] City Clerk Heather Glaser: Gail Stevens, please.

[00:17:40] Gail Stevens: Mayor, city council, I appreciate your service and your hard work, so thank you for that. These hands have planted hundreds of native plants at Shorelines, burrowing our habitats, including this morning, when we were weeding. And also, I helped care 4,000s of native plants that were planted by volunteers before me for years. There is a legacy of volunteers that have been trying to help improve the habitat for the burrowing owls. That's why we do our hard work. It's because we care about these owls and all wildlife at Shoreline. We do this work under the direction and expertise and guidance of Phil Higgins, and also Ryan Phillips. They know what all the plans are, what the sensitivities are, what the priorities are, what needs to be done, and which season. I've learned so much for them, but they are respected experts on shorelines. Wildlife, habitat and especially burrowing owls. And they're the people you want on your side, should the burrowing owls become listed as endangered. species. You're gonna need them. In July, we all were canceled without explanation, and I would like to take my remaining 17 seconds to urge you to bring back Phil and Ryan as soon as possible all of Shoreline's wildlife and habitat needs them very much. Thank you.

[00:19:16] City Clerk Heather Glaser: Thank you, Renee Bryant, and then Laura Masias. Welcome back.

[00:19:25] Renee Bryant: Yes, uh, thank you. Um, I have a beautifully written piece of comments here. But I'm not going to use them. I'm going to respond to what the mayor said. You know, I love the city, and I love the priorities that you guys set, and the things that we have always prided ourselves about mountain view, our care for our residents, and for the environment. And this summer, there was a breakdown in Shoreline, and I don't accept the description, as everything is okay. Everything is not okay. The ball was dropped. Programs, like, the programs around the boring aisles are really near and dear, the heart and soul, for many of us, were not taking care of the way they should have. It was like, we'll take care of it as best we can. Whatever, whatever personnel issues city had. A program that is near and dear to you. You don't say we'll do the best we can, but there's all kinds of problems. If it's important, you put all the effort into it. And I'd better be quick. Having great, I love great plants, having plants and priorities, just go so far because actions speak louder than words. And you need to do something. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:21:02] City Clerk Heather Glaser: Another former mayor, Laura Messias, welcome back.

[00:21:05] Laura Messias: Thank you, Pat. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I wanted to just clarify that when we authorize the full time hiring of biologists to take care of the brewing owls many years ago when I was on council that was innovative, and there was a really good reason that we did that. And there's still a really good reason to do that, because our problems with bird populations are no less, in fact, with global warming, they're worse. So we have someone like Phil Higgins, and I don't know his assistant, but I do know of Phil very well, and now that I've returned back after some family priorities, I'm here because this is the place where we do innovation. And some of that innovation can be continued and improved upon, not walked away from. And that's what I hope will do. Quality of life is so important, and quality of life includes not only, not only the people here, but also our animals. Are trees, everything. And so it really matters that this is, it seems like there's a wrong and that wrong must be righted. Thank you for listening. Thank you.

[00:22:28] Laura Messias: Can I just add that when I called to see if there was an opportunity to speak, I was told there was not. So maybe we'll just get that clarification at some point.

[00:22:41] Mayor Pat Showalter: We had some discussion about that.

[00:22:44] City Clerk Heather Glaser: The Julianne Wing, please. Welcome.

[00:22:54] Mayor Pat Showalter: Okay, um, can you, uh... I understand you have a presentation for us?

[00:23:01] Junian Wong: Yeah, I have a presentation. Good evening, Mayor Shawa, show order and council members. Uh, I'm Junian Wong. Santa Clara, Santa Clara Valley. Sorry, bird lines. Um, so I'm a resident in Mountain View, and I would like to talk to you. How important shoreline is for boring us? Next slide, please. Uh, so, boring house, uh, live in Ground Squirrel burrows, uh, were artificial burrows. They are very small and durable. They are at risk of extinction in the Bay Area, and most of the California, and they seem to be doing well only when people actively intervene with conservation programs. Um, uh, not slightly, barring out population, have, uh, have been declining for a long time. And Mountain View came to rescue. In 2012, the city adopted a borrowing out preservation plan to enhance enhanced protection at first. Since 2014, the city has been working in synergy with conservation programs of the Santa Clara Valley habitat agencies. Next slap, please. Mountain View is critical to the survival of borrowing us. In 2023, there are only 51 adult boring outs in the South Bay area, and all in 21 successful bringing appears. Of this, you can see in the graph. One third, which is 17, adopt alls, and five successful pairs were at Shoreline. Please take care of the odds, bring a full-time biologist back. Thank you.

[00:24:51] Mayor Pat Showalter: Thank you. And next, we have, um, Shine. At Pinehouse? I mean, a quick question. Uh, Ms. Wang, can we get a copy of the slides if you get a chance and email it to us? Thank you.

[00:25:09] Unknown Speaker: Good thought.

[00:25:11] Mayor Pat Showalter: Shonee Clonhouse, and after that, Eileen McLaughlin.

[00:25:16] Shani Kleinhaus: Shani is speaking on behalf of five virtual five people virtually. And now she's going to join me. So we're gonna speak together, if that's okay.

[00:25:27] Mayor Pat Showalter: Thank you. How many minutes are you allocated? Six?

[00:25:32] Shani Kleinhaus: Six and a half. Not sure exactly, but I think about that, yeah, I hope. Okay, so, um, I'll start. Good evening, mayor show, alter, and council members. My name is Shani Kleinhaus. I'm speaking for the Santa Clara Valley, Bird Alliance, which changed our names.

[00:25:52] Dasha Leeds: And hello, I'm Dasha Leeds, the conservation coordinator for the Sierra Club, Lummer Prieta Chapter. Our organizations serve the Mountain View community in multiple ways. The Bird Alliance Education Program works with 9 elementary school, serving about 500, 3rd and 4th grade students a year, offers 2 to 4 field trips each month at Questa Park, Charleston Slough in the Stevens Creek Trail and Shoreline, and various outreach fans. The Bird Alliance sponsors the volunteers at the Quest Apollinator Garden by providing insurance. Hundreds of residents volunteer or participate in these programs, both the Bird Alliance and the Sierra Club lumber created a chapter advocate for biodiversity, including a species, especially at risk of extinction, such as the burrowing owl. In September of last year, we advocated for the continued use of the Shoreline community fund for all the important functions, services, and programs that Shoreline Park entails. These include wildlife conservation, including burrowing owls, black skimmers, and many other sensitive animal species, protections from sea level rise, landfill operations, and more. Thank you.

[00:26:57] Shani Kleinhaus: 15 years ago, when I started working at Audubon, now Barodeliance, my predecessor stated, you can expect to devote a lot of time to borrowing our conservation, but in the end, you will not save them, and a day will break your heart. I still believe we can save them together. But I think there are a lot of people here, and on Zoom, whose hearts have been broken, including me, in this summer, and what happened in the summer of 2024 is incomprehensible to us. Mountain View's commitment, borrowing our conservation, has been the right of hope for years, and other people talked about it, so I'll gain a few seconds by not repeating it. Mountain View biologist works synergistically, with the habitat agency, to augment the city's own projects and programs, and with these strong collaborations, with Audubon Habitat Agency, and others, and with the implementation, by passionate, dedicated professional biologists, the owls who are doing well. And the community could trust that the owls and other species are in good hands. So you can imagine our surprise. and shock when we learned that in the beginning of July, our biologists were no longer there. And, um, that there was no professional biologists on site at all, no one to replace them. So both the conservation programs stopped, and long term monitoring, scientific monitoring, also stopped. The owls that were part of the overwintering program were kept in cages, and enclosures without biology supervising. So while we understand that somebody fed them and gave them water. We see that is a neglect, and we believe that their health and safety was in jeopardy. And those hours are special. They were bred, with a particular genetic breeding, to save our owls in the entire region, because genetic diversity is important to confervation. So fortunately, but one of them survived. But how was this allowed to happen? Would the city consider placing all the firefighters on leave and leaving a rookie with the hose and say, okay, there's a fire, you deal with it? This is what happened here. And this is an endangered species. And this is a very important time in their breeding, in their lifecycle, the time that they fledge and disperse. So how did this happen? From what we understand, when the habitat agency finally realized what was happening, and that there was no professional on site, and they reached the city to try and retrieve their boring outs or set them free, it took six days before that was arranged. Six more days that the owls were there. Most of the time they were released in mid July, or in June, even. So the rare percussions go even further, and I should go really fast, but long term monitoring and science is important to implement those conservation programs that the city has. Without it, you can't you can't implement them. And there is regional and statewide programs that also depend on that monitoring. And that has stopped. So maybe they can resume it, but there's a gap, and that gap should not have been there. So, I'll let you go, because otherwise, we want... So at this time, we asked the council to recover the implementation of the boroughing aisle preservation plan and the Shoreline Wildlife management plan and restore public trust. We do have a handout, hopefully making its way around to you, with these asks, which is, one, ensure that a full-time biologist is restored at the position is restored on city staff, the biologist should have the same qualifications and scope of responsibilities as the previous current full-time biologist, including project evaluation, the implementation of the borrowing out preservation plan, and the Shoreline Wildlife Management Plan, and working with volunteers to enhance habitat. Number 2 is to engage a qualified assistant to ensure the continuity of care and monitoring in times when the biologist is on vacation, medical leave, or other short-term absences. Third is to not, please do not use outside consultants or contractors. Thank you.

[00:31:45] Mayor Pat Showalter: We do have the handout, and we appreciate the time you took to put it together. Now we are going to move to our virtual speakers. I believe Eileen McLaughlin is 1st and then Aisha.

[00:32:09] Eileen McLaughlin: Good evening, Mayor Sher Walter, and members of council. I'm Eileen McLaughlin for the Citizens Committee to complete the refuge. I come here tonight to echo the concerns about the loss of real scientific talent in the city that has occurred here, and it occurred very abruptly, as far as these programs were concerned, burrowing owl, and for all of the programs involved with Shoreline Park. So I come here to share the thought that since establishing the burying owl preservation plan, the city, it stood out in wildlife leadership, inclusive of pursuing the shoreline wildlife plan and coordinating with restoration of the salt ponds. It all worked, while a qualified staff biologist or borrowing our plan requirement, served a city liaison with other wildlife science based programs. In that gap. And you've acknowledged that these folks, that other things have been dropped outside of burring owls. You haven't had that expertise, the person who can speak for the wildlife through science, data collection, its analysis, its use of vestive science, new information coming in, methods, and other investigations. Please, make sure that that is corrected quickly and permanently. Thank you.

[00:33:41] Mayor Pat Showalter: Thank you. On the next speaker will be Aisha or Aisha. Are you there?

[00:33:49] Aisha: Hi. Hi, I'm Aisha. I'm the organizer behind the Guardian Project. That's the grassroots community effort to save the burrowing out in Shoreline Park. So since 2016, that's 8 years. I've organized more than 200 unique volunteers who've contributed 1340 hours at 65 events by planting 2022 native plants for the burrowing owls. My project has educated and provide hope to both the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts of America by being an effective, tangible example for how to save our dying planet. So most of our volunteer sessions have set to be during the weekdays because we haven't even been allowed to do weekends, which is when the kids can do it. It's been denied by city staff. It's been clear since the beginning that the city is reluctant to even allow our community to save our owls. We were doing 2 sessions a month for volunteers with Phil, but now we've been dropped to one. And at the last session, not the one today, but a couple of weeks ago, we saw a red fox chasing a hare and red foxes, we've seen on camera, eat burling owls. The threat to our owls is eminent. And I don't see how a contractor being brought in will possibly have the knowledge to save our owls and to resume all the activities, including mowing down the graphs that has already grown so tall that allows these red boxes to sneak up on our owls. And it's absolutely heartbreaking. I want to iterate that. It's heartbreaking. What has happened to Phil? And that no one was told what happened. Thank you.

[00:35:26] Mayor Pat Showalter: No capping, please. Um, we don't clap or boo in, uh, council meetings, uh, to make sure that we have an atmosphere where everybody feels safe. So the next speaker is Bruce England, and after that, Marjorie Sigel. Bruce, are you there?

[00:35:43] Bruce England: I am. Do you hear me?

[00:35:44] Mayor Pat Showalter: Yes, thank you.

[00:35:45] Bruce England: Hi. Thanks, Mayor, and council members, and everybody who's spoken so far. I'm not gonna speak for very long. I support, essentially, everything that has been said so far from the community, and I appreciate, um, Mayor, your statement at the beginning to help provide some context. What I do want to say is that input and support from the public is so important. And even though the city might be confident that the right things are being done and will be done, it's important that you hear from the community, and that you hear the concerns, and even the skepticism that comes from the public, just to help ensure that attention is placed on this adequately over time, because one thing that can happen is that everybody is concerned right now, and trying to do the right thing, and then, you know, a month from now, other priority, come into play and then attention is drawn away from this. And so I think that this exercise tonight of everybody speaking, which is really great to see and great to hear. It's very informative, will help make the point with the city with counseling with staff, that a lot of people out here in the community care very deeply about this, including bringing on a permanent full-time biologist and other matters related to this. Thanks.

[00:37:06] Mayor Pat Showalter: Thank you. And then the next speaker is Marjorie Segel. Marjorie, are you available?

[00:37:15] Marjorie Siegel: Hello, I'm Marjorie Siegel. I'm a long-term Bay Area resident and frequent visitor to enjoy the burrowing owls and other wildlife at Shoreline Park in Mountain View. I care a lot about our native species, such as burrowing owls, and I'm really concerned that there aren't many of them left, as we're hearing tonight. Mountain View's brewing our preservation plan, and the other conservation programs are necessary to keep these precious owls from going extinct. Please, please, engage a full-time biologist that the necessary qualifications and scope of work to continue borrowing our preservation and monitoring programs, please ensure that these preservations, preservation programs continue, and that you engage and inform the community frequently. We want to know how these owls are faring. Thank you.

[00:38:12] Mayor Pat Showalter: Thank you. Next speaker is Leslie Friedman. Leslie are you there?

[00:38:21] Leslie Friedman: There we go. Now, can you hear me?

[00:38:24] Mayor Pat Showalter: Yes, we can. Okay, great.

[00:38:27] Leslie Friedman: Mountain View can be congratulated for efforts to improve and preserve our natural resources. That is why it seems so strange that the longtime efforts to protect the burrowing owls stopped, or seem to have stopped. The agreement for the owls includes a required biologist that is different than pulling in a part time consultant. My hat is off to the council and the city at hall for going to work on a complex process to preserve the lives of the owls. I do hope that the city will re engage the biologists. Thank you so much.

[00:39:14] Mayor Pat Showalter: Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our speakers. I'd like to thank everybody for taking part. And I would also like to remind everybody that the Parks and Rec commission meeting on September 11th, we'll have a presentation on the program, and that will, because it will be agendized, that will be an opportunity for not only people to say things, but for staff to answer questions, and the way our system works, you know, unless it's agendized, we can't really respond, which is often difficult. So anyway, I just want to remind everybody of that. Thank you for coming, and right with that, we will recess to our closed session, and we will be back on September 10th for our next regular meeting. Thank you very much.

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