November 8, 2021 Special Meeting of Mountain View City Council (Environmental Planning Commission Applicant Interviews)

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[00:02:07] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to our city council meeting. Study session to interview our environmental planning commission applicants. I'm going to read the usual announcement as required. This meeting will be conducted in accordance with the city of Mountain View City council resolution number 18613 in accordance with assembly bill 361. All members of the city council are participating in this meeting by video conference with no physical meeting location. Members of the public wishing to observe the meeting live may do so at mountain view.legistar.com. On YouTube, on mountain view.gov slash YouTube, and on Comcast channel 26. As noted on the meeting agenda, members of the public may provide oral public comments during the public comment period by visiting mountain view.gov slash meeting and entering zoom meeting ID 891 0639-4991 or by dialing by phone at 669-9009128 and entering webinar ID 891 0639 394991. Any emails received by 430 p.m. today were received directly by the city council. I think we'll move on to item two, which is our roll call with City Quickblazer.

[00:03:34] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Okay. I'll be calling the world tonight. Um, council member, council member Abi Koga.

[00:03:39] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Here. Council member Hicks?

[00:03:41] Councilmember Alison Hicks: Here. Council member Labor?

[00:03:43] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Sure. Council member Mattachek?

[00:03:46] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Here? Council member show Walter?

[00:03:49] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Here? Vice Mayor Ramirez?

[00:03:52] Vice Mayor Lucas Ramirez: Here. Mayor Kamei?

[00:03:55] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Here.

[00:03:56] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Everyone is present.

[00:03:58] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. All right. So, um, we'll move on to item three, which is our study session. Item 3. is to conduct our environmental planning commission, applicant interviews. Tonight, we will interview 11 applicants to the environmental planning commission. Per the selection process outlined in council policy number K dash 2. Interviews will be conducted in a panel format with one group of 6 and one group of five. Each applicant gets the same amount of time to answer each question, and the city clerk will alert each applicant when their time has elapsed. The question selected by the city council will be asked in randomized round robin order. So I think to get things started, um, I'm going to suggest 5 minutes be allocated to each applicant to answer all of the questions um, that we select. And so, um,

[00:04:58] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: and then Mayor, I just wanted to break in really quickly and um, remind everyone that you had one applicant. I know we read off 11 that was in the script before, but now we have a total of 10. So we'll drive 5 and 5.

[00:05:11] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Yep. Great, thank you. So I was just gonna say that. Um, so we have, um, 10 applicants now as of 605 PM. Um, and so our suggestion um, is that each applicant gets 5 minutes to answer each of the questions. Um, or a total of the questions that uh, we decide. Um, and right now, what I think we'll need is for, uh, Counsel to decide which questions we would like to ask, and determine the number of minutes allocated to each question. So I believe all of us have seen some of the draft questions, which include, why do you want to serve? How would you balance private and community benefits? What criteria would you use to evaluate a mountain view development, residential, and commercial retail? What issues do you think would be a particular importance to you as an environmental planning commissioner? What qualifies you for this position? What do you think are the major issues for land use planning in the city of Mountain View? and give some Mountain View examples of successes and failures and planning? So the council may ask a limited number of clarifying questions in the event a candidate's answer was unclear or otherwise not understood. Clarifying questions should not be used to allow a candidate an additional opportunity to expand on original response. After hearing from all applicants. Each council member will vote for three. All right. So I think, um, what we'd like to do first. is perhaps determine the questions we'd like to ask. And the time allocated for each question and then do public comment, or should we take public comment first?

[00:07:08] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: You can determine the order, the questions and the order 1st and then take public comment. That's me.

[00:07:13] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Wonderful. All right. So, um, colleagues, this is a little bit different tonight, kind of given the format. So just please feel to raise your hand. Um, if you have any suggestions on which questions you would like to, um, you would like to have move forward and your, um, ideas of how long each question um, should be. Allocated. So my suggestion perhaps is that we ask for 3 questions, that 5 minutes, perhaps the 1st question could be one minute, and then question 2 and 3 could each be 2 minutes, and that could be the total of the 5 Um, and then for question one, we could ask them to include a little bit, you know, about themselves and perhaps, um, you know, what, uh, why they'd like to serve on the EPC. Council member Mattachek.

[00:08:10] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Thanks. Um, so I'd like to, um, ask some questions that weren't listed there. Um, I would like to know, um, what they think about the cities existing plans for land use development. You know, the general plan and the precise plans. Um, I'd like to know their thoughts about those.

[00:08:34] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Can you propose that in a question format, please?

[00:08:39] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Um, sure. So, what are your thoughts? Um, on the city's existing land use plans, the general plan and the precise plans.

[00:08:51] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: And another oldie but goodie is, uh, What do you think the role of the EPC is?

[00:09:10] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. I'm taking notes. Okay. So, Council member, Matt, if I could proposing 2 questions that weren't on our list. The 1st is, what is the role of the EPC? And my suggestion would be, you know, perhaps tell us about yourself and what is the role? What do you think is the role of the EPC? Um, And then the 2nd question proposed is, what are your thoughts on the city's existing plans, for example, the general plan and precise plans? Those are the 2 questions that I have. Does that sound right? Council member had check? Did I incorporate that?? All right. Councilman Michelle Walter.

[00:09:55] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Yeah, I, um, I like how the question, how would you balance private and community benefits? Um, and I would like to expand this one a little bit, um, to, uh, include, and testimony that you hear on, you know, from residence on, uh, on various projects. So how would you balance private and community benefits? And how would you consider um, testimony from resonance?

[00:10:35] Councilmember Pat Showalter: And I like the, uh, the, um, suggestion that council member Mattachek made. Thanks for that.

[00:10:43] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great, thank you. So we have a 3rd question proposed. How would you balance private and community benefits? And how would you consider testimony from residents? Is that right? Great. Okay. Any other questions, suggestions? Okay, council member Hicks.

[00:11:02] Councilmember Alison Hicks: So the proposed questions sound fine to me. I'm just wondering whether we might want to say, how would you consider public comment from residents, rather? It just seems to me it might be more clear if that's okay with council members show Walter?

[00:11:18] Councilmember Pat Showalter: You're right, that's better. Thank you.

[00:11:23] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Great. Thank you. Counselor Ramata check.

[00:11:27] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Yeah, I think in the past, we reworded the one about private and community benefits because it was not entirely clear what we were asking. Um, and I can't remember how we rewarded it, but I think what we're trying to get at is, how do you balance, um, private versus community, private rights versus community benefits or private, um, interests versus community benefits? You know, if somebody can think of better wording, but I think it's, it kind of implies that it's, um, private benefits and community benefits, and I don't think that that's what we're asking. But if somebody has better wording.

[00:12:15] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Thank you. Council member, Abi Koga?

[00:12:20] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Um, yeah, I think I know in the past we've used, um, private property rights. Yeah. I don't know if that's more specific to where counselor met a check you're heading. Um, that that's how I would, Think of it. That versus community as a whole benefits.

[00:12:40] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. So perhaps it could be, how would you balance private, property rights and community benefits? And how would you consider public comment from residents? That sound? Okay. All right. So I think that we have. Almost 4 questions, but I think we'll still call it three. Um, so I'll just repeat them for colleagues and you can tell me if this sounds, um, accurate. So I think the 1st question might be, tell us about yourself and what is the role of the EPC, then the 2nd could be, what are your, uh, what are your thoughts on the city's existing plans, like the general plan and precise plans? And then the last question could be, how would you balance private property rights and community benefits? And how would you consider public comment from residents? Do those questions sound all right to everyone? Okay, so I'll just need, I think, um, so maybe some physical shaking of the heads or raising of the hands if those questions sound okay for everyone. Okay, I see hands and okay, thumbs up. Oh, that's even better. All right. And so I think the proposal would be, um, one minute for the 1st question. You know, tell us about yourself, role of the EPC, and then 2 minutes, um, for the other 2 questions, and then that would be 5 minutes per applicant. Does that sound all right? Okay. And then I think given the new selection process, um, Let's see, so each applicant gets the same amount of time, our city clerk will take time, and then it will be, um, a randomized round robin order. And I think before we let folks into the room, perhaps we can decide how that randomized round robin order will be. For example, it could be alphabetical by last name, alphabetical by 1st name, um, Those are the, I think the 2 suggestions that I have that might make the most sense without getting too deep into things. So, um, happy to have colleagues if you'd like to raise your hands, if you have a preference for the randomized order, if you would prefer by 1st or last name. And we will have 2 groups of five. Council member Hicks.

[00:15:02] Councilmember Alison Hicks: Oh, I don't have a strong opinion, but I'd say alphabetical by 1st name because it's a little unexpected. People, I think last name is more common, so the same people always go 1st and last.

[00:15:14] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. All right, so I think I'm just gonna take that as a suggestion. Are folks okay with the randomized order for both groups, one and 2 to be alphabetical by 1st name, and then we'll just popcorn to it. Okay. All right, I see shaking of the hands. All right. Anything else about the questions, the timing or the randomized order? Okay, I'm not seeing any. So, um, we can move on to public comment before we we go to our applicants. So um, would any member of the public on the line like to provide public comment on this item. If so, please click the raise hand button in Zoom or press StarNet on your phone. It may be a little bit different given this format that we're in. Um, because I think it's not a web, it's not a webinar. But if you could please raise your hand, if you do have public comment. Um, and then I can call on you. Let's see All right, I am not seeing any hands. Deputy City Clerk Wong, are you seeing anybody? City clerk glazer, are you seeing anyone? All right. So I'm not I'm not We're all not seeing any hands and no one on the line, so we'll bring it back to, um, council and we'll, um, have the 1st batch of applicants be brought into the meeting. Thank you. Oh, right. Is everyone here? So quickly, is there? Okay, so kind of given the format, we just see everybody. So, city clerk, do you mind, um, reading the list of 5 folks for colleagues to, and the public to clearly hear so we know who's in group one?

[00:17:56] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Uh, yeah, the group one is Chris Clark. Uh, Jose Gutierrez, Matt Crenwald, Megan Elmore, and Paul Donahue.

[00:18:11] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you very much. That'll help me. With the order. Okay, so let's see. So. Chris. Okay, so the order I have then is by 1st name, alphabetical, Chris Clark will start. Jose Gutierrez is 2nd. 3rd is Mac Grunwald, 4, Megan Elmore, 5th, Paul Donahue. Is that right? By alphabetical 1st name? All right, wonderful. Okay. So um, the city clerk will keep time. So our 1st question is, well, for one minute, and we'll start with you, Chris. All right, Chris. Tell us about yourself and what is the role of the EPC.

[00:19:11] Chris Clark: Well, mayor vice member, uh, vice mayor council members. It's good to see you all again. Um, I think you all know me fairly well, so I'll, um, I'll just start by saying, um, you know, I think the role of the EPC, you know, it's, it's an advisory body to, to council, and its goals, I think, should be to look at long range planning, land use, uh, with respect to land use and environmental sustainability, um, and being a conduit between the public and the council and sort of uh, uh, you know, reviewing um, those long range plans and and land use policies and and projects. those, um, those plans and, you know, taking a 1st pass at those after staff has looked at them. Um, working with the public to get uh, input and feedback on those plans, and then to provide uh, the best recommendation that we can to you all, um, to either move forward or not or to make tweaks, um, to those, those plans or those developments. Um, and then I think, you know, yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I'm eager to serve on EPC is, you know, I believe land use and environmental sustainability or 2 of the key areas, um, that will play a significant role in the long term sustainability of our city. One minute goes by fast.

[00:20:29] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. Yes, question one is one minute. So hopefully that'll be easy to understand, to remember, and the city clerk will let you know when your time is up. Um, so uh, Jose, you're next. Tell us about yourself and what is the role of the EPC?

[00:20:44] José Gutiérrez: Hey, so I want to apologize to everyone for us, because it looks like my video is just not installing, so just FYI. I can't control that, but I'm gonna answer the question and go for it right now. Um, I think the advisory board with the APC is important to the community, obviously because of future development growth. Um, and we need housing. We also need community input from diverse neighborhoods, from different ones where we haven't been heard from before. I live on Lathon Street, and I understand that many in my area here is being looked at in terms of proposed redevelopment projects, and I like to be able to voice concerns about that and express your opinions from my neck of the woods, so that we can continue the smart work for the city. That's in the best interest, not just for one particular neighborhood, but for the big picture of Mountain View. And so that's why I look at the APC as an important decision making body to help advise the city council to make the right decisions as best as we can.

[00:21:36] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. Matt, you're next.

[00:21:41] Matt Grunwald: Sure. A little bit a little bit about me. Um, I've been here living in Mountain View for about 9 years. Both my wife and I work for businesses based in Mountain View, and have raising 3 children who are in the Mountain View schools. We consider Mountain View to be our home, and so I feel invested in the future of Mountain View. So, um, that's why, and I think Mountain View is a collection of decisions that have been made. Uh, that's how the city operates and looks today is based on, and a result of those decisions. The EPC helps counsel as an advisory body to make decisions about land use and with individual properties. And I feel, um, compelled to help. If I can help make those smaller decisions, the council doesn't have time to oversee and to make decisions for each of the specific projects that come up, um, that I'd be contributing to the future of Mountain View. Uh, as well as for the long-range planning. Again, I think, um, trying to be connected to, uh, the neighborhoods I have experience, uh, based on my, in my application, uh, reference the different neighborhoods that I've lived in and living working here. Um, have a breath of experience that I could bring.

[00:22:52] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great, thank you. Um, Megan. And please let me know if you'd like me to repeat the question, but...

[00:22:58] Megan Elmore: That's okay. Thank you. I appreciate everyone's time here today. My name's Megan. I've been living here in Mountain View since 2009, and I consider it to be my forever home, I guess. Um, I have really loved living here both as a renter and now as a homeowner for the past 4 years. So I think that I bring to the, I would bring to the committee, you know, a vast range of experience in different places. I've lived within Mountain View and a perspective on what it's like to be a renter here, what it's like to be a homeowner here. And I feel really compelled to come work with the PC because I know that your job is planning, you know, how to keep our ecosystem beautiful, how to keep our social ecosystem beautiful, and how to keep us functioning well into the future. I think now it's a wonderful time to be focusing on long-term planning. I know that I feel compelled to do it pretty much anew, but I'm excited to join you guys. And I would really like to learn from the council and to, and from the committee, and to be able to contribute my part.

[00:24:04] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great, thank you. Paul.

[00:24:08] Paul Donahue: Hi. Um, So, I've lived in Mountain View for 27 years, and the last 15 years of that have been on various advisory bodies, including 7 years in the Parks and Rec commission, 7 years on the library board. So I'm really invested in the community. And I've also lived both as a renter and as a homeowner in Mountain View, so I do have both perspectives. Um, I think the role of the EPC is clearly, it's an advisory body to the city council as the, I think the, the city charter says. But it really is a conduit between, I think, somebody else said, a conduit between the public and the city council. And it, the purpose really is to vet a lot of these ideas, uh, gather the public comment, uh, kind of, hopefully offload some of that from the city council, so it doesn't all have to go through the city council and get some of those preliminary, um, uh, ideas and things distilled down to something that's ready for for the council. Um, So, uh, Those are my thoughts. Thanks.

[00:25:10] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. Um, so we'll move on to a question too. And I think how traditionally, in City Quicklazer, you can correct me if I'm wrong. The round robin works is we'll start with whoever was 2nd first, right? So a popcorn. All right, just want to give folks the heads up. So this time we'll start with you, Jose. Um, and question 2 is 2 minutes. What are your thoughts on the city's existing plans, like the general plan and precise plans?

[00:25:44] José Gutiérrez: Thank you. Um, Arnold, Mayor, come here. Look, these are challenging times, and we're obviously at a crossroads with development and growth. We're looking at computing invested interests between neighborhoods and what can be built in those neighborhoods and what can be built, but you're also looking at issues that affect the environment, transportation, school district growth, and the impact that just more construction brings to either already impacted neighborhoods, like in my neck of the woods, on Ratham Street, California, Rainstorf, that area, or other areas that are open to just rezoning issues. So I think we should be careful when we try and think about these issues in the present, but we should also try and be open minded about what can we do to tweak these if they need to be readressed. I think, uh, with the general plan, spend about maybe 10 to 12 years now, so that might be a good thing to look at and revisit, especially with the R3 issue coming up, so that we can better plan and balance out how we look at development and growth in all aspects of the city life, right? Because if we don't, then, you know, we're not really doing a managed growth perspective that's beneficial to everyone in the community, no matter where they live. Thanks.

[00:26:52] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. All right, and then we'll move uh, to uh, you, Matt. So same question. What are your thoughts on this day's existing plans? Like the general plan and precise plans.

[00:27:05] Matt Grunwald: Sure. I think the general plan and precise plans do a good job of balancing in the current state. Uh, the needs of all the different quality of life issues that we're trying to balance in addition to the, uh, how much we need to grow our housing stock. Um, as we look forward to the decisions that this EPC will need to make. Um, I would be very interested in in really trying to quantify for each project, uh, that is coming forward with us, uh, to the to the APC. Um, to what extent can we, um, leverage the, what's been put into the precise plan and general plan to, um, make sure that those projects were getting, the community is, is getting as much value out of those as the future tenants or future, um, owners would out of them. So how are we, um, maintaining the trees on those lots? Uh, protecting the canopy. looking at access to public transit and uh, retail needs of the surrounding communities, um, and displacement. really trying to quantify, you know, what affects each project would have, and how those projects align to what's been laid out in the general precise plan. Generally speaking, I mean, I think they do a good job of, um, hitting that balance, but as mentioned prior, they've, um, the general plan has been, it probably needs to be revisited. Uh, they've been around, um, Some of the clients have been around for a while. So, um, as we move into the next phase, how do we really look at quantifying benchmarking versus other jurisdictions or other areas, uh, cities nearby, uh, to make sure that they are in step with uh, where they, where we need to be. And really to specify the goals we're trying to reach with the individual projects and the larger plans.

[00:29:09] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great, thank you. Uh, Megan? Can you need me repeat the question?

[00:29:14] Megan Elmore: Oh, no, I think we're good. Well, I am happy to admit when I am not an expert, and also when I'm a complete novice, I am coming to city planning fairly fresh, and so I, as a resident of Mountain View, maybe this is pretty typical. I don't know too much yet about the general plan, the precise plan. I know that they're available for folks to look at and it's something that I haven't looked into too much yet. I do know what I've experienced from living here and from, I'm doing a small community art research project in my own neighborhood of Montaloma, just interviewing neighbors about what mountain view's been like and how it's changed over the years and what they love about it, how they live on this land and how they tend it, and so I know that, you know, in the 14 years I've been living here, I've seen Mountain View continue a trajectory of incredible growth due to, you know, all of the jobs available in the technology sector. And I benefit from that. I have a partner who works in technology. And so I've noticed the landscape change, a good amount. And I also know that I'm living in a neighborhood where things don't look to have changed too much. It still looks pretty post-war suburbs over here in Mauna Loma, and it's beautiful. Um, and so I want to, Should I be picked for this commission? I want to come in and learn more and I want to bring my, you know, freshness to somebody who doesn't know too much yet. Um, to really listen to both people on the committee and the council and also to other citizens of Mountain View about what are we looking for? What do we want to see this, uh, how do we take care of this beautiful place that we have?

[00:30:50] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Uh, Paul.

[00:30:55] Paul Donahue: Um, so, so one thing that I, uh, I mentioned before that, I was on some various city commissions and committees, but uh, I've also spent the last 8 years on the Santa Clara County Airport land use commission. Uh, and that is a land use body in the county, you may not be familiar with it, but it's created by state law. And it doesn't actually oversee the airport itself. It has to do with land use around the airport. Uh, and so it actually has an impact on Mountain View, where uh, the ALUC has a comprehensive land use plan for Moffatt Field, that uh, identifies particular areas uh, that are concerns with respect to safety, uh, you know, case of an airplane crash or something, height, and noise, which are all issues around airports. And it makes sure that the land use around the airport is compatible. So that's, uh, so I'm familiar with uh, land use planning, and in fact, the, um, the East Whisman and North Bay Shore, uh, precise plans came to the, to the ALUC for, for our review and approval to make sure that they were compatible with Moffat Field, which they are. Um, and actually tomorrow night, you'll have another uh, look at the East Westman updates, which came to the ALUC. So, um, so I've I've been involved in the land use. I've seen these the plans that Mountain View has. Um, as for uh, plans for Mountain View going forward. Obviously, environmental environmental sustainability is super important. Um, uh, because if things aren't sustainable, uh, well, we can't sustain them. And that's, uh, that's not uh, any good for anyone. So, um, you know, complete neighborhoods, uh, are, are also important, uh, and just kind of orderly development and, uh, and, and making the place, the city better for, for everyone, all the, the people who currently live here and the newcomers that the new development would, uh, would accommodate. Thanks.

[00:32:55] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. And Chris.

[00:33:00] Chris Clark: So, I'm obviously a little bit biased here of having, having worked on them, um, and, um, you know, from the general plan to the, the initial 3 uh, 3 precise plans we worked on and, and then some of the more recent ones that we passed. I think, I'll start by saying, I, I'm personally really proud of, of, the work that we did on all those across several councils, starting with the general plan and then the precise plans, which I think were, the envy of many, um, and, you know, won all sorts of awards, but I think the most, um, uh, important thing there is that a lot of cities try to imitate those And I think that's the greatest form of flattery. Having said that, the journal plan is, is, um, getting a little bit, um, it's been a while. I think it would behoove us to take a look at that, maybe not a full um, general plan, um, process, but maybe something targeted. I also think we've learned a lot from, you've seen the evolution of the precise plans where, you know, East Wisman, I think, is a much better product than some of the early plans, and even though I think, um, you know, El Camino, the El Camino corridor, for example, is actually, I think, developing quite well, and and we could do, um, maybe that doesn't need quite as much to change, for example, if perhaps a relocate some of the others. But I think, um, I think the other thing that we should be proud of as a city is that, as time has gone on, we've learned from the successes and failures of each individual elements in each of the precise plans, and, you know, um, culminating in, you know, East Wisman, for example, where we have a job's housing linkage. Um, and, um, and really responding and adapting to market conditions over time, and the needs of the community with respect to housing, and, you know, even though it was really painful, you know, 2 different iterations of North Bay Shore. And I just, I, I think we should be really proud of it as a city, that we've, um, I think we've continued to evolve and and produce better products. The other thing that folks forget about EPC is they're also implementation plans associated with the general plan and everything and um, we should work hard to ensure that we're, um, we're, you know, meeting the, uh, the intent of those implementation plans.

[00:35:15] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. All right. Thanks, everyone. We've now hit our 3rd and last question, and this one we will start with Matt. Um, and this is for 2 minutes. How would you balance private property rights and community benefits, and how would you consider public comment from residents?

[00:35:39] Matt Grunwald: Sure, um, I'll take this in the, uh, in the form of, for, you know, let's, let's say a specific project is coming before, uh, for the EPC to be evaluated. Um, you know, I think overall, my my general take is, you know, what would a, what would the average Mountain View voter, um, or resident think is fair? Um, you know, so, uh, and and use, uh, 1st starting from the from the framework of, you know, what what actually can be decided versus what is already decided by, um, you know, the regulations that are out there, right? So in some cases, there's no flexibility really to, um, ask, uh, or ask a developer or a property owner to alter the plans. Um, I think for that, I would investigate, try to do discovery questions, really asking a lot of questions. Um, trying to get data, where possible, uh, to benchmark, you know, let's say number of units, square footage per units, um, you know, all of the, uh, hard numbers about the plan or project, and how do those compare to other benchmarks from, um, past, uh, past projects that have been evaluated and what the regulations are. And then just when it comes to making a call on, you know, whether all the heritage trees need to be moved or or not, you know, I think, I think, BPC has the ability to really dig into those decisions and, um, where, again, this council may not be able to, uh, just based off of a workload. So, um, really trying to walk the site, trying to, uh, get a sense for, um, you know, what what would neighbors think and when they offer their comments. Um, taking that. Taking that at face value, but then also looking at it with a, a, um, a critical eye, um, because some folks on both sides will will speak in hyperbole. So I think trying to really get to the root of what's fair and what most folks would view as fair in Mountain View, um, doing your best to balance both of those.

[00:37:49] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Great. Thank you. Alright. Megan. I'm just gonna repeat it one more time. I find if I repeat it twice. Usually people get it. And then I don't have to repeat it again. So how would you balance private property rights and community benefits? And how would you consider public comment from residents?

[00:38:08] Megan Elmore: Thank you. Um, yeah, I think I know I have a lot to learn about private property rights, but I'm currently inclined to look for the most community benefit that we can have. And that's both short term and long term. Any new development in Mountain View, which we certainly need. We need places for people to live, especially for people who work in Mountain View to be able to live in or close to Mountain View is so important. And I would love to, you know, for part of my work to be, um, Yeah, encouraging just long-term thinking about, you know, what development is necessary, what is pursuing profit where, you know, it's going to be of detriment to the community in the long term. I'm thinking pretty short term right now, just given where we're at with climate change and the climate collapse. Um, I know that we have, you know, governments are putting all sorts of different benchmarks on it, and I wish I knew the statistics better because I know that, you know, is more impressive to hear, but we have about a decade to make changes we need to make. So that, to me, indicates that we need to be really careful about growth that we make. Make sure that it benefits community members and that, you know, we take responsibility for what goes on in our, you know, what goes on in our city and our neighborhoods because we're not just mountain view. Just this one isolated city. We were, you know, part of California, part of America, part of the world. And so if we're not, you know, thinking of the community in local and even broader terms, I think we, that's, that's really important to consider in terms of environmental planning. And I, I'm really excited for the opportunity to, you know, hear more from other Mountain View residents about what we need and want and, you know, other property owners, business owners about what they need and want. Uh, that's currently my job. I'm a therapist. I was formerly a teacher, and so I, um, I think I'm pretty good at listening and taking a backseat and really taking in what people are giving to me. I know I have my own strong opinions, but yeah, so I'll try to be as receptive as possible.

[00:40:21] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. I appreciate it. Right, uh, Paul.

[00:40:28] Paul Donahue: Okay, I want to start out by just saying why I'm why I'm applying. And really, it's because I'm driven to serve. Uh, I've been involved in, uh, all these appointed positions that I mentioned over the years, because I want to give back to the community, uh, and I want to feel connected and engaged with the community, and I feel part of the community by really digging in and and, and being, being apart. And this is kind of the natural trajectory on that, on that course. Um, but the important thing is, I'm not really applying with any specific agenda. I'm not, uh, I don't think that, uh, you know, I'm not angry that we're developing too fast or we're not developing fast enough or that uh, we need maximum development or minimum development or anything like that. Um, so I just, I just want to serve Mountain View. So, when on the private property rights and community benefits question, I, uh, I don't have any, you know, magic formula or anything like that. My overall consideration is what is best for everyone. Both, as I said earlier, that the people who currently live in Mountain View and the newcomers that we would welcome in any sort of new development. Um, But, you know, one thing off the top of my head that I would prefer something like a public park space over private park space inside a development. But I don't have any necessarily any hard and fast rules that I can, you know, explain right now. As far as the public comment, that is super important to me. It always has been important to me. I'm a very, uh, interested in listening to people gathering the comment, the public comments and making people, uh, hearing people and making them feel heard and explaining my my decisions, because although people may not agree with my decisions, Uh, I need them to, to understand that I was listening and that I heard them, and and then hopefully they can, can respect the decision that, that I, that I come to, whether they agree or not. Um, thanks.

[00:42:35] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great, thank you. Um, Chris.

[00:42:40] Chris Clark: Um, I think in terms of, of balance, the, the key to striking a good balance is, generally ensuring the community feels that a use change or a development, is, is benefiting them in some way, and it, it isn't solely at the, the benefit to the, to the private um, landowner or party. So I think the, the private benefits of the developers sort of inherent in the proposal. It's sort of imply that, you know, they're doing this for a reason. And you have, you know, by right projects, which you can, um, you know, have controls in when you're reviewing a zoning ordinance, for example, um, or you can have community benefits for, um, you know, a project that might go outside of the boundaries of what might exist there. And so I think, what we're really looking at, especially in terms of community benefits or, um, you, can we, um, are there things that we can do to ensure that we're meeting our overall goals instead of solely serving the interest of the property on earth? So, for example, publicly accessible, open space, um, additional canopy in the long run, greater diversity of housing types, additional retail, um, and generally things that bring the community together and make it feel like a more integrated community, and with respect to incorporating testimony from residents. Um, the folks who are near these developments are the ones who are going to know what their community most need. And so when we're looking at the benefits of the development, especially if it's a community benefit that we can, that we can require, I think we need to take those needs of that specific neighborhood or community, um, into account, and, um, that should be a, a primary concern of the EPC. Um, so, you know, in terms of evaluating the project, you know, just looking at, does it deviate from existing claims and requirements and how much? And if so, um, uh, what is, um, uh, how do we um, ensure that we're obtaining, you know, maximum community benefit in exchange for whatever allowances we're making and um, ensuring that we're not making too many allowances and getting the community's feedback on, on what those benefits should be? And then just spending the time to read the IR, the staff analysis. As you all know, staff does an excellent job of analyzing the impacts of, of density, loss of existing uses, retail parking, traffic, all those things and spending the time to actually review all that and talk to the community.

[00:44:59] Chris Clark: Oh, sorry, am I over?

[00:45:00] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Yeah, that's okay.

[00:45:02] Chris Clark: Sorry, I didn't hear you.

[00:45:03] Mayor Ellen Kamei: No worries.

[00:45:04] Chris Clark: No worry. Sorry, I didn't hear the buzzer either.

[00:45:08] Mayor Ellen Kamei: I appreciate it. All right. Jose. And let me know if you need me to repeat it, Jose.

[00:45:18] José Gutiérrez: Yeah, sure. Why not?

[00:45:19] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, so, uh, how would you balance private property rights and community benefits, and how would you consider public comment from residents?

[00:45:28] José Gutiérrez: Okay, great. Thank you, honorable. May I command? Um, I think that's the biggest challenge, right? I've been a former elected official, and I've been caught in situations where I've got to factor out, what does the union think? What do my parents think and what does the district think as a whole, right? Especially when I was with the schoolboy. But when you look at these types of issues, I think the biggest challenge that we have is communication and sharing of information. Once everyone knows what can and can't be done, you find in that respect that then we're on the same page. So it's a matter of figuring out, uh, when you're looking at a project, in my humble opinion, um, how much does the community actually know, right? And how active are they in general, depending what you're looking at in Mountain View, when there is a proposal? Do they really come out and speak, right? And when they do, do we listen? Do we understand? Not just at the EPC level, but also within the city council. And I think that when you look at it from that perspective, and we share the information that we have, and whereas candidates, we can be about what the developer can do with his or her rights, what the project, and what we're looking at in terms of possible negotiations, for community benefits, we can look at the Gamble way example, I think, where there's a give and take then. And if there is a give and take, we should jump all over that to try and see what can we get that'll positively affect the neighborhood in that area specifically, but then in the big picture, How will that affect transportation, how will that affect our eco footprint, how will that affect our relationship with traffic, and in general, that neighborhood setting? And when you look at it from that perspective, then you've got more of a fuller and rich perspective of ideas, of expression of interests, or sometimes even disagreements. But as long as we can manage all that to the benefit of the community, and we're able to explain the rationale behind a certain project and what it is that can and can't be done, and that we're able to listen to members of that area and of the city as a whole, then I think that's how you move forward. Change sometimes isn't easy, right? Especially when you've got gentrification issues. When you look at the school district itself. When I joined 5 years ago, I've said this to you many a little bit before, during the weekend, 5 years ago, 49% Latino students, now it's time to 37. So we've got to protect our socioeconomic diversity as well. And when you listen to people and you're a part of the community. Thank you.

[00:47:41] Mayor Ellen Kamei: So thank you. Yeah, sorry about that.

[00:47:43] José Gutiérrez: No worries.

[00:47:44] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Two minutes can go fast. All right. So I think that concludes all 3 questions. And so I want to thank our 5 applicants for their time and their patience as we work through our our Zoom and our new interview processes. So really appreciate it. Council will deliberate. Um, and we're gonna talk to our next group of five. Thanks so much. Have a great night.

[00:48:07] Unknown Speaker: Thank you Thank you. Have a nice night, everyone.

[00:48:10] Unknown Speaker: Bye. Thank you.

[00:48:15] Mayor Ellen Kamei: And so we'll just take a beat here as our next 5 applicants move over. All right, and I think all 5 are here. And so city clerk glazer, can we just do the same thing, if you don't mind, just read out the names of the 5 for all of us, just to refresh our memories.

[00:48:41] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Yes, we have Alejandro Nunez, Ida Rose, Sylvester, Joyce Ian, Richard Rathben, and William Lambert.

[00:48:52] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Right, sorry, Joyce. And Ida Rose. Okay. So I guess this is where I have to say, Alex, is it okay if we call you Alex or would you like us to go buy Alejandro tonight?

[00:49:13] Alex Nuñez: You can call me Alex.

[00:49:14] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Just making sure. Okay, because it, okay, so that doesn't change you in the alphabet. But William, Bill. You're gonna get a change, I think. So we all know you as, uh, unless, uh, You'd like to go by William tonight.

[00:49:31] Bill Lambert: Bill is good.

[00:49:32] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. though. All right. Thank you. All right, so we'll have, um, Alex first, Phil's second. Pine rose. Joyce, Richard. I get that right? All right. wonderful. Okay. So, um, just as a refresher, 5 minutes, um, for all of you, um, the 1st question is one minute. 2nd question, 2 minutes, 3rd question, 2 minutes. And our city clerk will help keep us on track. And when you hear that beautiful kind of bell sound, Your time is up. All right, so we'll start with you, Alex. Tell us about yourself and what is the role of the EPC?

[00:50:22] Alex Nuñez: All right, sounds good. Well, my name is Alex Nunez. Uh, I have been a longtime advocate here in the city of Mountain View for, uh, increased development, um, you know, for tenant protections, uh, and for ensuring that as our city grows, uh, that the most vulnerable people uh, in our community are able to uh, participate in the benefits of that development as well. The role of the EPC aside from its city charter and, you know, kind of legal requirements as far as reviewing projects for compliance with our zoning code, for example. I believe really is intended to be a conduit or some kind of, um, you know, really a channel between what the community wants and needs out of development and ultimately being able to provide that back to the city council. Um, one of the particulars, uh, that I believe I can bring to the table is in being able to extend, uh, that to the Latino community in the city of Mountain View, to be able to make sure that people are understanding where development is heading in the city and how they can participate.

[00:51:29] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Uh, Bill. Tell us about yourself and what is the role of the EPC.

[00:51:42] Bill Lambert: Sorry, there. Sorry. Thank you. There we go. Um, yeah. Um, thank you for allowing me to uh, interview for this position. I'm very excited about the opportunity. You all know me in various capacities, over my probably 10 years, working in various political aspects of Mountain View, including the school board. Uh, being uh, a board member of the uh, day worker center and other capacities. Most recently, I got involved with the issues surrounding Mauna Loma Park and became aware of all of the issues about land use in Mountain View. I've done a lot of research on it already. But there's so much more I need to learn about all this to come up with good solutions. The role of the EPC, as I understand it, is to advise the city council to review the proposals put out, put forth by the staff, and to think of the consequences of the, the consequences of the plans on the long term planning for Mountain View, and to really fill in the gaps and give a sanity check on, um... Thank you.

[00:52:53] Bill Lambert: On the work that the staff is doing. Thank you.

[00:52:57] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Ida Rose.

[00:53:00] Ida Rose Sylvester: Good evening. I'm Ida Rose Sylvester, a proud 22 year resident of the city of Mountain View. Over the last several years of my professional and civic engagement, I've created a unique combination of expertise across several pillars, including the natural environment. The built environment, such as evaluating and challenging projects, large and small. have those serve our community. The human element of planning, through my tenure, and the human relations commission, which has helped me really understand how our planning process directly in indirectly impacts people who live here. The historical through my work in the Mountain View Historical Association, learning from the past, so we know how to do good things again and not repeat mistakes. And through small business, through my nonprofit and other efforts in the community, which is acutely important when we look at issues like downtown preservation and revitalization of our businesses. In terms of the EPC's role. The EPC helps formulate plans, also making recommendations on critical policies like Arena and R3 zoning and other issues. But I think it serves key issue and listening, and helping balance the needs of our entire community.

[00:54:09] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Uh, Joyce.

[00:54:16] Joyce Yin: Oh, you have to, let's see.

[00:54:18] Joyce Yin: There we go. Sorry, I didn't want to make noise earlier. Okay. Thank you for your time. I just wanted to introduce myself to those who don't know me. My name is Joyce Yin, and I am a professional registered architect. I mainly do residential. I have a background in city design as well, urban design, and I care very much about how our city develops over time. And in the near term. Uh, historic preservation is, is one of the things I feel is uh, needed to have an overall balanced city that works well over time. And I think that the background I have, um, in that aspect of city planning, really, is useful when we look at zoning codes, um, general plans, precise plans, so and so forth. I do feel that ABC is much more than that. We also need to look at the whole picture, the environment, sustainability. I have a degree in environmental sustainability, um, environmental sciences, um, in that is a passion of mine as well. So bringing it all together.

[00:55:32] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. All right. Um. So our next question will start with Bill. It's 2 minutes. And what are your thoughts on the city's existing plans? Like the general plan? Did we miss Richard? Oh, so sorry, Richard. Sorry. Oh, you have to unmute. lets see. Hold on, let me ask you to unmute.

[00:56:01] Richard Rathben: Very good. I'm sitting here in awe of everybody. What a great group of candidates you have. I'm impressed. Yes, uh, my name is Richard Ruffin. You know, I've lived in Mountain View now for 20 years. I was attracted to Mountain View because of the diversity of the city of Mountain View. Uh, I think probably what I would bring to the process is 80 year perspective in the North Peninsula. I was born in Palo Alto, and I've considered this northern peninsula, my primary residence for the last 80 years, and I have watched unbelievable change, and I know we face more of that going into the future. And so I bring perspective as well as a background in architecture and urban design. And also leading a foundation in Palo Alto for 35 years. So, I've been involved in civic things, and the planning commission, I think, is a very, very important body in a city. It's sort of representative of the stakeholders, hopefully, who determine how the city will implement a general plan, and work closely with planning staff to achieve the city's goals.

[00:57:15] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Perfect, right? when the buzzer went off. Thank you. All right. All right, so let's see. I think I have to ask people to un me out. So Bill, I'm going to ask you to unmute your next. So question 2 is 2 minutes. What are your thoughts on the city's existing plans, like the general plan and precise plans?

[00:57:38] Bill Lambert: So um, yeah. It's a good question, very broad. Um, the general plan right now. Um, I think, really focuses on housing, and we're getting housing needs from, you know, many sides, not only internally, but clearly from state mandates. And I like to sort of frame that in a, like, a different way. And think of it that, is that we have an opportunity in a very diverse, uh, a very sort of exciting community, with a lot of resources in terms of jobs, in terms of talent. But we also have a real social conscience, I think, in Mountain View. And to put it forward as thinking about how can we create sort of a better, a more inclusive society, and a more inclusive community, through the decisions we make about housing. And And, you know, for all people. And part of that is that, and I see a, uh, a really need right now is to think more about not only the housing issues, uh, but also about the public, um, investment, the community investment that goes into parks, that goes into school, that goes into transportation, that goes into all of these aspects that make, uh, give fabric to a community. And, uh, we need to start think, paying more attention to that, and understanding how we're going to provide those kind of, uh, community investments along with the housing. I think precise plans are great. They, uh, provide a real focus on, um, on what can can't be done, and they're well thought out. Um, and I'd like to see more of those. I'd also like to see in terms of the planning and developing the plans, um, more um, study sessions so that, uh, all of us have an opera.

[00:59:45] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, thank you. Thank you. Okay, Ida Rose. What are your thoughts on the city's existing plans, like the general plan and the precise plan?

[00:59:56] Ida Rose Sylvester: I love this question. So thank you. I think the city's general plan is excellent, but it's, by its very nature, is general, and is probably aging. It did not itself be, could not predict a pandemic, and its impact on our, uh, our workforce, and the need for office space, the need for small business, that support office space. Um, it certainly cannot predict some of the regulations, like what arena allocations would be, um, each time. So in many senses, it's a great document, but needs to have living, but the living, the current time, breathed into it. From our precise plan perspective, I think, especially with East Wisman, Tarobella, and North Bay Shore, we have some really incredible vision for building complete communities that serve a future population, that take some very bold steps, very similar to the bold steps we took here in the '50s in a city, when we were moving from a very agricultural city, to a much more densely urbanized city. So a chance to really re envision who we are, when we grow up, with that said, I think we face a lot of challenges, because we do need to look at things that we may not have looked at as much, holistically, like the built environment, social justice aspects. Um, the needs of existing community members, who, I think, are existing community members, often feel they are left out of these processes, no matter how well we try to reach them. So I think there's a lot of room for bringing people in. Like Jane Jacobs said the best cities are built. When everybody's viewpoint is put into the process, Listen to and incorporated, and we build cities for the people who live there today, as well as what we, um, excuse me, envision the people who live there in the future. Thank you.

[01:01:49] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Have choice. Let me just commute myself,

[01:01:54] Joyce Yin: yes, thank you. Um, yeah, as I had mentioned in the application, I just feel like, much like Ida Rose had mentioned, the general plan is general, and we are facing such rapid change in a short amount of time that it makes for very complex issues and challenges. And, um, I find that we really need to prioritize and balance all those aspects. And it's tough to do. There's no easy solution or answer to this. But I feel like it's very important to listen to the public, to what they want, what they feel is important. And then translate that in priorities, In our priorities, in terms of how we build out and plan for the future. Um, in general, even the precise plans. These are long term things. And when we look at something of that scope and that timeline, we sort of have to look at our best view of what that future might be. We have to have some flexibility in there. But at the same time, we are planning for the greater good of the city over, sort of this medium term, for the general plan, obviously, is for the longer term, and there needs to be more flexibility and the general plan, given such rapid change. But it's a complex challenge and um, very interesting challenge and, um, I'm kind of excited to see what happens, even though it's, it's a little nerve-racking too. Thank you.

[01:03:29] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Um, Richard, same question. What are your thoughts on the city's existing plans, like the general plan and our precise plans?

[01:03:38] Richard Rathben: Are we trying to agree that a general plan is very general? Uh, And I think, uh, Mountain View has some unique challenges in that it's cut in pieces by the railroad tracks by freeways and, uh, you know, by physical situation like Shoreline, even Shoreline Avenue. And, uh, I would like to see more precise area plans, and when I helped to write, uh, Palo Alto's just expired general plan, we, uh, created five precise area plans in Palo Alto, and, uh, involved the people in those areas in helping to determine the character in the nature of those areas. So, um, I think the precise area plan process is could be expanded. And I also agree that we have to ground the general plan in all kinds of things like, uh, diversity, which is one of the reasons I moved to Mountain View, appreciating diversity, uh, preserving some of the historical aspects of Mountain View, and then embracing it that we can barely imagine as it unfolds, but to take snapshots along the way, to update the general plan and ground it in reality as we move forward. Thank you.

[01:04:55] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Alex.

[01:04:59] Alex Nuñez: Yeah, I think that, since it was adopted in 2012, that the general plan is definitely ready for some opportunities for some practical amendments. I think that the city is already moving towards this with what the R3 working project, looking at that zoning category and looking for opportunities to densify. Um, and I also believe that uh, the displacement uh, component will be very important, uh, as we look to make sure that there's more equity and how we develop and grow. But there are definitely other challenges as well. Obviously, as we've seen over the last 10 years, some of the environmental components have definitely come into the fore a lot more. And so as we're thinking about how we're going to be meeting, you know, some of our greenhouse gas emissions, reductions targets, for example, I think that one of the areas of the general plan where we want to look at is not only affirming the need for jobs close to areas of transit, greater connectivity of, you know, bicycling and alternative modes of transportation is definitely going to become a lot more important as well. But one of the other areas that I do feel very encouraged by is precise plans like East Wisman, where we are acknowledging the need to balance out commercial and residential needs moving forward. I would definitely like to see a lot more of that as well. Um, and making sure that the affordable component is not left behind, um, not just for uh, homeownership, uh, at all levels, but also for, uh, renting people being able to, um, not just kind of come into Mountain View to establish a career, but also be able to uh, eventually work their way into some form of homeownership. Um, that's, that's the kind of mentality. I think that, um, we can we can increase, uh, towards our general emphasise plans. Thank you.

[01:07:01] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right. So I think I got everyone for question two. And so we'll move on to question 3 and we'll start with you, Ida Rose, and it'll be for 2 minutes. How would you balance private property rights and community benefits? And how would you consider public comment from residence? Um,

[01:07:21] Ida Rose Sylvester: I think actually our city has done a wonderful job generally balancing the needs of private property rights and community benefits. Our city has been doing that since that big boom period of development in the 1950s. The neighborhood that I live in actually has had the 1st community park required as a for a developer. So I think we've had a long history of encouraging development rights. I know there's a lot of discussion about how making developers pay for certain things. Cost of developers too much, which may lead us with not enough housing or housing that's too expensive, doesn't meet the needs of the missing middle or affordable housing. But I think that over time, we are developing some very clever mechanisms, like the Gamble Way Project, I think, will be an excellent example of how we have balance the needs of a developer, with the needs of our community, and come up with solutions that are win win for everybody, including better ownership housing, or better ownership housing opportunity, as well as opportunity for keeping affordable housing in place, while giving the developer an opportunity to build housing dense enough that meets their economic interests. And I'm sorry, can you repeat the second part of the question about the public input?

[01:08:41] Mayor Ellen Kamei: The second part is, how would you consider public comment from residence? Um,

[01:08:46] Ida Rose Sylvester: I happen to be very fond of public comment. I absolutely love talking to people of Mountain View people who've lived here. You know, six weeks or 60 years. I think people, everyone brings a unique perspective of how they view the city, how they interact in their own natural and built environment, and how they view the future. And sometimes those are extremely contradictory, and it feels like we can't come to solutions, but I've worked very hard, especially on the HRC, in making sure that diverse public opinion is brought together. We hear it all, and we work together to find solutions that meet the underlying needs that everyone has. So, I think we also just need to do more public input on projects earlier on and be willing to hear the hard things that people have to say, even when we don't agree with them. Right? Thank you.

[01:09:38] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right, you next is Joyce. Let me know if you have trouble on meeting Joyce.

[01:09:46] Joyce Yin: Got it. Yeah, not a problem. Thank you very much.

[01:09:48] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Perfect, yeah.

[01:09:49] Joyce Yin: I'm just... Can you repeat it, please?

[01:09:51] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Yes, I will. How would you balance private property rights and community benefits? And how would you consider public comment from residents?

[01:10:02] Joyce Yin: Okay, 2 distinct questions, all balled up into one. Okay. And tough ones too. Uh, yeah, that is an eternal challenge. Uh, property rights versus, okay. Well, I think, If you are a property owner, you have every right to make a profit. Um, I do not take away from that. However, I guess when I come to it, the problem at hand, it is literally just trying to balance. All the priorities. And there are so many components that are important, and a lot of it is for the public good, and I do tend to, I will say, side with the public good over time. And not, I do not want to take away from the ability of a property owner or to be able to, um, have a win. But if we can work together from the beginning of the process and all have come with good intentions. I think it's very doable. We've had lots of examples in large plans all the way down to like individual projects. And so I think it's doable if everyone comes to the table with good intentions, the willingness to work together. And, um, I just think as member of the EBC, my job is to look for the good of the city and for the public. And that takes us to part two, which is taking public input. I think it's critical to get public input. What are we doing if we're not doing that? I think that we really need to try to reach out and hear more about what the public wants. I think that's always a challenge too. Everyone is so busy, so stressed out, just making ends meet. There's not a lot of time to devote to what's not going to affect them right now. So, um, I think if we can try to just get more public input. Fuse it together and then make the best decisions possible. That's the best we can do, and I'm all for it. Thank you.

[01:12:06] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right, next, Richard. So I'll repeat it. How would you balance private property rights and community benefits? And how would you consider public comment from residents and you have 2 minutes?

[01:12:18] Richard Rathben: That 1st part is a great question. Great question. I think we're right in the middle of that challenge everywhere. The individual rights, what makes the richness of texture. Uh, you know, it's diverse. It uh, it makes places interesting. And collective rights, I would call them the collective rights community rights. Those are absolutely needing to be totally balanced by the individual part. And so, uh, I think Mountain View is doing a good job. love the downtown. I love the civic center. I love a lot of, there are a lot of parks in Mountain View, but I think the well-being of the community is something that derives from a well-educated population. So, in part, answer to you. My 2nd question, how to involve people and the input. In my experience, it's best to create some form of contextual education before people start to voice opinions. It tends to collect, collect the opinions a little bit when you contextualize them, and put them in the larger common good. And I participate in that in Palo Alto. We did an extensive outreach in Palo Alto to people, and involved people in coming up with the design and the plans for their neighborhoods and for the city of Palo Alto. So I'm a complete advocate of facilitated, well facilitated, um, with an educational component, of involving all the stakeholders, and making the decisions about the future of the city and the neighborhoods that they live in. That would be it. Thank you.

[01:14:04] Mayor Ellen Kamei: I sort of combined them.

[01:14:05] Richard Rathben: Yes, no, perfect.

[01:14:06] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Yes, we were trying to sneak in 2 questions into one. And they're very related. So I feel, yeah. Perfect.

[01:14:14] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right, thank you. Um, Alex, same question for you. How would you balance private property rights and community benefits, and how would you consider public comment from residents?

[01:14:26] Alex Nuñez: Yeah, absolutely. Um, the way I think about it and and I actually think it is, is that balance can skew in 2 directions. At the most baseline level. Uh, the reason we have a need community benefits is because as we allow, uh, developers to come in and make a monetary return on building projects in our community. There are actual impacts around, you know, increased traffic or increased demand on our parks, um, that actually do arise from enabling that development that as a city, we need to be able to bring back to make the city livable for the people who have been here before and will continue to come in. So at that level, anything above that. Really, I think, requires, uh, being able to, uh, for lack of better words, engage the developers, uh, or the project, or the owners of projects as people, and really kind of bring them in as partners in the community and help them participate in giving back to the community a little bit more. That takes a little bit of nuance. But it was also important to make sure that development is not tilting in the other direction where it's actively harming people. Um, and so in terms of the public comment, you know, that is actually one area where, um, I believe that I have done work to proactively engage people, um, for example, with Gamble Way, where that project, um, you know, people needed to understand what the process was, how they could organize, to understand where the city would take that project, um, I really made sure that I was proactive in reaching out to people at that, uh, you know, site so that they could participate into that, uh, public process. And so I think as far as public comment goes, if I were to make it on the EPC, I would definitely want to be a lot more proactive in reaching out to people who could be impacted by development, while anyone else who did happen to come and give a public comment, it's always important to have a validating and understanding ear, be someone who fosters very civil discourse, and then is able to take that input back to the city council. Here's it. Thank you.

[01:16:36] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Okay, and Bill, would you like me to repeat the question?

[01:16:44] Bill Lambert: No, I think I got it.

[01:16:45] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay.

[01:16:47] Bill Lambert: Okay, thank you. Um, So one of the reasons I would like to be in the EPC is to be able to answer that question very well. Um, I really don't have enough information, how to balance property rights with everything else. It's every, as people have said, it's complex. But the money involved is staggering. Uh, for all the needs of our community. The, um, you know, going forward and going backward. Um, in the process. Um, I think that the situation in North Mountain View was urgent. We're having tremendous growth there. Um, and we need to plan. But I really would like to believe that we're all working for the same thing, whether we're developers, citizens, students, children, families. We all want Mount View to be a great place to live. And I think if we keep our values really high and really lofty, that will help everybody to work together because everybody has to work together to make this to make this happen. We can't be in our little, you know, our own little vested interest groups. and keep working like this. I've just seen too much of that over the last year. Part of that solution, of course, is public input and as much community input, stakeholder input, um, talking together, having meetings, being educated as a community. Um, It's very, very difficult to do. And again, I wish I had a good answer, how to reach out and get everybody involved. But I think we have to do a lot better at trying it and trying to educ- to interact with people early in the process, especially before the city staff, spends all the time doing their planning, doing the hard work. Um, and then come to us with a proposal that hasn't been sort of worked on by everybody. Um, So, uh, I'm up for the challenge. I want to answer those 2 very, very important problems. Thank you.

[01:18:57] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. All right. So, um, that concludes our, I think, 3 questions, and, um, thank you all for, um, joining us and counsel will deliberate. Great. Thanks, everyone. Have a great night. All right. Okay, just waiting. And so

[01:19:25] Mayor Ellen Kamei: I'll now bring, um, this item back to council, um, for for votes. The person with the 3rd highest number of votes will be appointed to the shorter, unexpired term. If there is a tie vote. We will revote on the Tide applicants. Um, So I think we have a, Um, we had an Excel spreadsheet that I think everyone saw in terms of being able to, to vote, um, but perhaps people would like to, to deliberate or share some initial thoughts before we go into, um, into voting. I'm not sure If council would like to, you can feel free to raise your hands or perhaps, um, city clerk glazer. You can help us figure out how we'll, uh, use the Excel sheet. Um,

[01:20:19] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Yeah, I'm happy to track, um, for the council. And it just as a matter of who would like to begin, um, either voting or?

[01:20:31] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. And so I think we can either go each council member individually or happy to entertain a motion. Um, which I think, um, would work as well for appointment. Uh, Vice Mayor Ramirez.

[01:20:47] Vice Mayor Lucas Ramirez: Thank you, mayor. Um, I'm just gonna rip the Band-Aid off. This is a tough call. I appreciate, um, what Mr. Rathlin said. We have a very strong pool of candidates. Um, all of them are impressive and bring, uh, different qualities and, um, assets, um, broad representation across the city and position in life, all of them. I think would have much to contribute to the EPC. And um, so I've been struggling with this for, for quite some time. Um, I'll share with you how I have come to the conclusion I've come to, and then I'll share my votes, and um, depending on how things play out. Um, you know, I may change my mind, but this is where I'm landing right now. Um, I had, uh, the opportunity to attend the Spanish language Civic Leadership Academy, uh, Sunday afternoon, and, uh, was deeply impressed by all of the graduates, and, uh, many of the friends and family members and alumni who attended, had a chance to speak with a number of them. Um, many of them, not all, but many are immigrants, uh, who have come from countries where, um, there is a distrust, uh, of the people in, or in their government. And, uh, one of the things that impressed many of the participants and graduates, was how inclusive and welcoming the city of Mountain Viewers, and how they each felt that the city and their local government really cared. about what they thought. And, um, I think they all would agree that we're, we're doing a lot better even than many of our fears. Not that other cities in our, uh, county don't care, but how many others, uh, can say that they have leadership academies that are, uh, provided in languages other, other than English. Um, And uh, all, all of them are excited to continue their service to the city in one way or the other. And one of the things that's hard for me to ignore is right now we have no representation from our Latinx Latino community. Um, and we only have one renter on the planning commission. Uh, so I'm going to supply votes both for Alex Nunez and Jose Gutierrez. Uh, for several reasons. I think they each have great merit on their, you know, in their own right. Um, in terms of representation. They're both Latino, they both rent. Um, Jose lives on Latham. I don't know if we've ever had a planning commissioner who has lived on Latham. Um, and both, uh, I think have deep ties with our Latinx community, both speak Spanish. Um, both were runners up in the most recent council race. And if they were to run again, I think they would have a probability of victory, in which case, I think it would be beneficial to the city for them to have land use experience. I think both have very different perspectives in many regards. Uh, Jose is, uh, aside from Mr. Lambert, unique and having elected experience, and I think has demonstrated an ability to work well with a governing body, um, and staff. So I appreciate that perspective. I think that will be valuable. Um, and Alex has done a tremendous amount of organizing work and uh, and I think would, would do an exceptional job representing a community that often feels marginalized and and vulnerable. Um, I can't pick between the two. I think both deserve an opportunity to serve on the planning commission, and I'll share, I would be very sad if neither were given that opportunity. Um, so those are my 2 starting votes. Um, I'm also going to support Joyce, uh, because I think she's done a great job as an incumbent. Um, He also has, I think, uh, an advantage in my, from my perspective and representing, uh, a growing community, or, um, our Asian population in Mountain View. Um, I think she brings her perspective is not always aligned with my own. Um, but I think it's, it's an important perspective to have. She's been active in community groups in the city. Um, and I think has been very thoughtful in her contributions. Uh so I'm very happy to support her as well. Uh, so those are my votes. Uh, and I'm very eager to hear what every other member of the council has to say. Thank you.

[01:26:03] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you, Vice Mayor, and I just want to clarify, um, the CPPC made, um, the council policies and procedures committee, made several changes, and so I'm just gonna read this because, um, we actually, we're gonna need to go through all 7 of us. Um, it says each member of the interviewing body shall vote for as many candidates as there are open seats. For example, if 3 seats are available, vote for no more than 3. If 3 seats plus one alternate seat are available, vote for no more than four. In the case that a variety of terms are open, The candidates with the highest number of votes shall be granted the longest terms. In the event, there is a tie vote, each member of the interviewing body shall revote for the candidate of their choice, and the candidate with the highest number of votes wins. The interviewing body may choose another voting method by my majority vote. So, um, city clerk laser is using the um, Excel spreadsheet to keep track of all of our votes and will, will go through individually. Thank you for letting me read that and going through this new procedure with us. Really appreciate it. Um, Counselor Robert Cook, I saw your hand up. Would you like to go?

[01:27:21] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Um, thank you, Mayor. Actually, that was gonna be my question is what's the procedure, because you had mentioned both doing motions and then having each of us go through it.

[01:27:29] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Sorry about that. Yeah, no, it's changed. Um, I think, yeah, going through one of one at a time is probably best anyway.

[01:27:36] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Um, my other question is, um, uh, in terms of the alternate, um, we, I believe this uh, APC is one where we, as a council, can decide if we want to appoint an alternate or not. And so, um, my question is, um, when should we have that discussion?

[01:27:57] Mayor Ellen Kamei: We can do it. So the policy I just read says if there, if there's an alternate seat available, then we would, we would appoint for it. And so I guess the clarifying question for staff is, is there an alternate seat available?

[01:28:13] Councilmember Pat Showalter: So for the APC, I believe we can create an alternate seat if we'd like to. So I'm not sure if things change with the new CPPC update policy that I just read.

[01:28:26] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Uh, policy that you read from doesn't address specifically, what bodies have, or can have, uh, alternates. Um, currently right now, you have the 7 members and no alternate. So the only thing that we brought forward tonight was filling the 2 impending vacancies and then the one that's vacant for an unexpired term. But the council would like to discuss an additional, um, alternate seat that would be something I would suggest doing separately from this voting process.

[01:29:07] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Okay. Well, um, yeah, I guess we can maybe leave that to the end then, but, um, in the past, our past practice to decide if we want to, um, create an alternate seat, uh, oftentimes based on just the applicant pool and, you know, if we have a lot of strong candidates, we like to, Try to include as many as we can and and alternate seat is a way to do that. So then I'll leave that till after we pick our 3 appointees. Um, so with that, I guess I'll just, um, put my, um, my preferences, um, I do appreciate the, um, number of applicants and also just the, um, very strong pool of applicants. We've received this time. Quite a few folks with a lot of experience. Um, I do also appreciate the folks who are interested in getting more involved in the community. So thank you to everyone. Um, I would start with uh, reappointing Joyce Yin. I think she has done an outstanding job. Um, very thoughtful, very, um, very, um, hard-working, really, um, really has, um, put a lot of effort into her role as an ABC member. So, um, I think she definitely deserves a reappointment. Um, in terms of the other 2 seats, um, I appreciate, um, all the different, um, things we have to consider, I definitely think diversity is very important, uh, representation of, um, our different constituencies in the community as well as, um, geographical, um, variety. Um, and so, um, I, uh, would support, um, as Vice Mayor mentioned, Jose Gutierrez. Um, I think he has been, um, he has served the community already and elected, um, position on the school board and understands very well the challenges of balancing the different, um, voices in our community. Um, and I do support the, um, um, the, the, need, I would say, um, of representation from the Latin, Latino, Latinx community, as well as, um, from his neighborhood, and the fact that, um, he would be representing the renter community as well. Um, Given, you know, who I am, what I've done. I do very much value experience is very much value experience. And, um, you know, what we do, the topics that we've discussed, the APC discusses. Um, frankly, you know, very complex and, um, really spans over a long period of time. And I have, um, discovered in my returning back to council. Um, maybe the the value of understanding, the historic context of a lot of what we are discussing now, like where the where they root from, what or have our decision's been over time. Um, lessons learned. Um, And that, you know, can help shape how we moved to the future. And for that reason, um, I support uh, Chris Clark. Um, I think he, we all know him. I think he's done an outstanding job as a council member, as an APC member, and he really understands like everything that we're talking about now because he's been a part of that. And I really believe that continuity um, makes a difference and can really um, add a lot of benefit. So, he would be my 3rd vote. Thank you.

[01:32:55] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. Other hands? Council member Lieber?

[01:33:14] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Thank you, Mayor. Um, well, I 1st wanted to say how much I appreciate all of the applicants who have gone through this process, who, um, participated and all had really substantive answers. Um, and I think it's really uh, a credit to our community that we have people stepping up in such a, uh, a strong way. So thank you to everyone who's participated. And I would like to cast um, my initial, uh, 3 votes for, uh, Alex Nunez. Ida Rose, Sylvester. And Joyce Yen. Thank you.

[01:34:06] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Council member Hicks.

[01:34:13] Councilmember Alison Hicks: Well, I won't belabor what everyone else has said that we really have a wealth of candidates, and I, um, I actually, I wish I got many more than 3 votes. Um, and, uh, you know, I agree with a lot of the things that, uh, previous council members have said, so I will not, uh, belabor it very much. Um, I will be... Joy Sienna's done a great job, and I will be voting for her. I will, uh, also be voting for Alex Nunez for, uh, many of the reasons already cited. And I will be voting for Richard Rathbun as well.

[01:34:58] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Council member Mattachek.

[01:35:15] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Thanks. Um, so I agree that there are lots of great candidates here. Um, I appreciated hearing um, some different perspectives on some of the questions. Um, I, um, agree with the comment about it's good to have some folks who have some experience, um, because land use is a complex topic. And we need folks who can sort of hit the ground running. And so I am leaning more toward candidates who have um, at least some experience in either directly in land use or in related fields. Um, I absolutely support Joyce Yin. Uh, she has done, in my opinion, an outstanding job on the EPC. And I think I've shot her a couple of emails to let her know how much I appreciate her contributions on that. Um, she really brings, um, a wealth of knowledge, um, that I think has really contributed um, a lot to the recommendations from the APC. Um, and then, um, You know, I appreciate some of the other folks who, um, have some experience, and I'm really torn. Um, because, Um, You know, some experience, lots of potential, more experience. Um, It's it's a tough one. Um, and, um, Uh, I guess I'm leaning toward um, Jose. Um, And, um, Uh, I'm gonna do 2 for now. I'll come back come back to me for the third.

[01:37:17] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. All right. Councilman Michelle Walter.

[01:37:24] Councilmember Pat Showalter: I didn't even raise my hand, mayor.

[01:37:27] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Uh, yes, I, um,

[01:37:30] Councilmember Pat Showalter: I, too, have been, uh, just delighted with the caliber of people who have stepped up to apply for EPC. It really is a, um, you know, a wonderful reflection on the city, and, and, um, kind of, the work that we've done in the past, and the work that hope people hope will do in the future. So, um, uh, I just, I can't say enough about, uh, how much I appreciate that. Um, I would like to cast my vote for, um, Alex Nuñez, um, for Chris Clark. And, um, for Ida Rose Sylvester. I, too, have been, um, impressed by Joyce, but she has enough votes, so, uh... That's, uh, so, um, Clause Clark, Alex Nunez, and Ida Rose Sylvester.

[01:38:25] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. And thanks for humoring me, counselor. I'm just trying to keep our meeting moving. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, so that leaves me. So, um, I just want to say thank you. Thank you to our staff, our my colleagues and to our applicants in the public. This is a totally new process for doing EPC interviews. The round-robin style, the timing, um, and having to continue to do this virtually. So really appreciate you humoring me as I, um, uh, really appreciate it. And I feel really heartened that we had, you know, initially 11 applicants for 3 seats for EPC. It's such a wonderful thing to see our community wanting to step up and serve and offer a variety of perspectives and backgrounds. Um, to, I think, what's really important, which is talking about, Land use in our city. Um, so I just want to say thank you. And what's, I think, also exciting, hopefully is, um, with the, with the wealth of applicants that we have today. I want them to know that there's now 12 city boards and commissions. So, um, you know, if APC isn't tonight, hopefully there's another commission that, you know, you could, uh, apply for, or apply for EPC again. Um, and that the city is really trying to expand our public and our community involvement. So I just wanted to say that because I know sometimes we have openings and vacancies on other commissions that we struggle with. So I just want everyone to know that there's other opportunities to serve, and we're really grateful that all of you want to. Um, so just wanted to say that. Um, and I would say too, something, um, that's interesting about EPC is council tends to watch your meetings. And counsel will look at the different, I think, dynamics. Um, and and different points of view. And I think, um, you know, for myself, I'm trying to think of what, what kind of mix, um, would be helpful, um, as we're talking about a group of, of 7 individuals. Um, and so, um, when it comes to me, really appreciate, I am going to vote for Joe and Joeys. Um, you know, I think that, uh, her for her, her years um, on Serbian EPC have been, um, really helpful in her perspective and also, um, want to, um, vote for Jose Gutierrez. And, um, want to, uh, vote for Chris Clark. So those are my three. Um,

[01:41:13] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: yes, council member Mattachek. I was gonna ask if you wanted us to circle back to you.

[01:41:18] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Go ahead.

[01:41:19] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Yes, so I'm sorry. I am. Was reading my notes incorrectly a little bit earlier, so I shouldn't have been debating as much as I was. Um, obviously because of his experience, um, and knowledge in the area, which I think is helpful. Um, I will support Chris.

[01:41:42] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thank you. Okay. So I think all of us have given our 3 names, and we will leave it to the wonder of Excel and our city clerk to let us know the final tallies. Uh, so it looks like, do you want me to read off everyone or just, I think what would you like?

[01:42:02] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: If I'm doing this correctly, I think we probably have 2 and then we have a tie. Is that right? You have one and a tie. A one in a tie. Okay. Oh, right, yeah. one then? Yeah, Joyce Yin. I received 6 votes, which is the most of anyone. So she wins there. You have a tie between Alex, Jose and Chris at 4 each. So if everyone wants to revote for 2 out of those three, that would be my recommendation.

[01:42:35] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. All right, so we have Joyce, and then we have 3 but vote for two. Uh, Alex, Jose, Chris. All right. Vice Mayor Ramirez.

[01:42:54] Vice Mayor Lucas Ramirez: Thank you, Mayor. I'm going to sustain my votes. So, uh, Alex and Jose.

[01:43:00] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Thank you. Councilman Robbie Koga?

[01:43:09] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Uh, I will sustain my vote as well for Jose and Chris.

[01:43:14] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay? Councilman reliever?

[01:43:19] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Thank you, Mayor. Uh, Alex and Chris.

[01:43:25] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right, thank you. Council member Show Walter.

[01:43:30] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Alex and Chris.

[01:43:33] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right. Councilman Michelle Walter. Oh, sorry, how's the matter check? Sorry. Okay. Let me put your hand down. we go.

[01:43:49] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Oh, sorry about that. Uh, Chris and Jose.

[01:43:58] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great, thank you. Council member Hicks.

[01:44:07] Councilmember Alison Hicks: Okay, that would be for, um, Alex. And Chris.

[01:44:20] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. All right, so. And then I think it's just me, right, City Click Laser?

[01:44:29] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: So I get everyone?

[01:44:29] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. And then I'm going to sustain my votes, which are Jose and Chris. I think we go ahead.

[01:44:40] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: I was just gonna say, if we got everyone, then that leaves us with a 2 way try between Jose and Alex.

[01:44:48] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay.

[01:44:49] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: But Chris receipts 6 votes.

[01:44:52] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. So we have Joyce and we have Chris. And then it's uh, vote for one of the two. Okay. Okey-dokey. So we'll do that one more time. So please raise your hand and let me know, Alex and Jose. Councilman Michelle Walter. Alex.

[01:45:20] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Council member Abi Koga.

[01:45:23] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Jose.

[01:45:25] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Customer reliever.

[01:45:32] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Alex.

[01:45:34] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Council member Mattachek.

[01:45:46] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Jose.

[01:45:47] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, say. Health member Hicks.

[01:45:52] Councilmember Alison Hicks: Alex. Alex.

[01:45:56] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. I think. I'm missing something. Vice mayor. Am I missing you? Missing you and me. Yeah.

[01:46:10] Vice Mayor Lucas Ramirez: I'm, this is the process. I hate having to pick between these two. I just want to share that with you. This is a very difficult decision for me. Um, Alex.

[01:46:28] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right. And okay. And I'm sustaining my vote for Jose. So I bet you there, Alex would be appointed to the unexpired term. Okay. Alright. So, um, Okay. Council member, Abby Cooker.

[01:46:59] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Thank you, Mayor. So, I think, this is where I bring, I'd like to bring back the, um, uh, uh, earlier topic that I, um, brought up in terms of an alternate, um, in light of our strong, uh, group of candidates, and frankly, the close vote that we had for the the top candidates. I would like to make a motion that we, um, make Jose Gutierrez the alternate, um, for the APC.

[01:47:29] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. So, um, I just, before we go down that line, and customer member, I see your hand as well. I just, I do see, um, our city attorney, um, on here and just wanted to double check because having read, um, Having read the new policy, um, and just wasn't sure if this needs to come back to council. Um, for, um, at a future time or or what, um, city attorney Chopra, thanks so much for joining us.

[01:48:06] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: Yes, thank you, Mayor. Well, we did check the city charter and the, uh, city code, and it's ambiguous as to the, um, alternate for the Environmental Planning Commission. The charter says, the EPC shall be composed of at least 7 members, and then the zoning ordinance says, it shall be composed of 7, and there's also no procedures set forth for how an alternate would participate on the EPC, such as we have for the RHC, for example, it's clearly delineated. I don't think it's impossible to do this, but I think it may be better to bring back the item if there's counts majority council interest so we can think it through with the city clerk in terms of how the alternate position would be structured and how the participation would take place. So, uh, I think it may be best to bring this back if there's interest in, A, creating a EPC alternate position, and then we could have procedures laid out for council to consider. And then the candidate pool, uh, could be, uh, the same as as tonight, uh, to make those, uh, the selection.

[01:49:27] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thanks, City Attorney Chopra. And I see other hands raised, but I want to go to council member Abbe Koga, since it was her question. Uh, council member Abby Kogo, did you have further questions for city attorney Chopra?

[01:49:39] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Um, not so much questions, but, um, again, based on past practice, what we have done is, um, created an alternate position, which in an event of a vacancy in the next year, that person would be, um, would take that open position. Um, but in terms of how they participate. Um, they're not voting members in any sense. They're not gonna be filling in for people if they miss the meeting. It's just whether if there's a vacancy that comes up within the next year.

[01:50:13] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, thank you for that clarification because I was not sure on what the intent was. If it's to fill a vacancy if one comes up, that's a different scenario than I was describing. I thought it was an acting alternate. It's very different. from the RHC. This was really because, you know, and we are filling a short-term seat today, even because we do have a lot of turnover.

[01:50:39] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Yes. And so, um, it was an attempt to try to be able to fill that spot without having, you know, a long break with a vacancy, um, as well as just trying to, you know, get more folks involved and and, um, take interest and participate by attending the EPC meetings, but not necessarily, they don't have any, like, voting rights or anything. Okay, thank you for that clarification. I think if it's to fill a future vacancy, then it would be okay to have that discussion tonight. Great, thank you.

[01:51:13] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. And I think, um, thank you, City Attorney Chirper, thank you, Cousin Robbie Koga, and I think just to clarify the motion. So perhaps it would be, you know, not necessarily to, to revoke for the alternate, but are you proposing that the, the person who was in force would get the alternate position, and it would be an alternate if EPC has a vacancy. Can you just please clarify for colleagues just so they understand your motion?

[01:51:45] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Yes, so my motion was to, um, create the alternate position, um, along the terms that we just outlined, and that that alternate be Jose Gutarist.

[01:51:58] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Um, I'm frankly not interested in revoting. I think it's, uh, I just want to, um, make that appointment.

[01:52:06] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, thank you. Thanks for clarifying. All right, Councilman reliever.

[01:52:10] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Thanks for your patience. Thank you, Mayor. Um, well, I think that, um, to keep faith with the public, it would be better to bring this back as a noticed item. Um, I, I think that it wasn't indicated in our agenda that we would change the structure of the EPC, um, in kind of an ad-hoc way. Um, and I think that we wouldn't lose anything by, um, by bringing that back as a publicly noticed item under the Brown Act.

[01:52:49] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Council member show Walter.

[01:52:55] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Yeah, I was just wondering how, uh, if the clerks, uh, deputy city clerk, um, Wong can remember, how how frequently this has happened, that somebody has moved away, I know, um, when I, uh, took my seat, um, on the EPC, it was because somebody had moved out of town, and there was just a year left in their term. Um, but on the whole nine, um, years I was on, I don't think it happened again. So I'm just wondering, and clearly, it just happened. So how often does this happen?

[01:53:29] Deputy City Clerk Wong: It's when the council decides to appoint an alternate, if there's a vacancy prior to the annual recruitment.

[01:53:36] Councilmember Pat Showalter: No, yeah, no, yeah. How often does somebody move away? um, and create a hole in the EPC.

[01:53:44] Deputy City Clerk Wong: Um, this hasn't happened for a while. Yes. So I don't remember anyone moving away recently.

[01:53:52] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Okay, so it may or may not. And that's the main reason why people drop off of EPC, isn't it?

[01:53:59] Deputy City Clerk Wong: Right, exactly. Um, the former, um, planning commissioner had resigned the end of May. And if there was an alternate, they could have just filled that place, filled her place with a...

[01:54:15] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, thank you. Thanks, Wanda. That answers my question.

[01:54:18] Councilmember Alison Hicks: Yeah. Um, I, I kind of, I, I agree with that council member, uh, Lieber on this. I really think it should be, um, uh, noticed. Um, this is a, EPC is a very important uh, commission in our city. I mean, I guess a planning commission is always important, but it's very important in our commission. People take it very seriously. And I think it should be noticed. Uh, the alternate should be noticed.

[01:54:50] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Great. Thanks, council member, Sean Walter. Council member manager.

[01:54:55] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: So I was an alternate on the EPC, um, and nobody moved, um, or resigned, um, and so that was not how I was appointed to the EPC. Um, but, um, I, you know, having Watch city council meetings, been on the planning mission, now being on council, um, it's actually fairly common to have an alternate on the EPC. Um, and so I will 2nd council member, Abey Kobo's motion.

[01:55:28] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. Also member Liper.

[01:55:34] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Like to move to lay the motion on the table uh, until it can be publicly noticed for a meeting.

[01:55:44] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Are you doing a substitute motion, then Council member Abby Kogas? Because Councilman Robbie Koga made a motion. It was 2nded by council member Mattachek. Um, or are you calling the question?

[01:55:59] Councilmember Sally Lieber: No, definitely not calling the question. I'm moving that we lay, uh, the emotion that's, uh, currently, um, been seconded that, that we lay that motion on the table. Um, until, uh, we can bring the item to a publicly noticed meeting.

[01:56:22] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, does that have a 2nd? Okay. Cousin Rochelle, what are you raising your hand?

[01:56:33] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Yeah, I'll 2nd it.

[01:56:34] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. So we have a substitute, um, and I think that's what it what it is. City Attorney Chopra, correct?

[01:56:39] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: It a substitute motion. Yes, and I just want to clarify, would that also have the regular appointees for tonight and your additional request to bring the question of the alternate back. We're going to appoint the, the 3 members tonight, and it's only the, the alternate member that you're intending to have brought back for the notice discussion.

[01:57:08] Mayor Ellen Kamei: That's correct. Okay. Yeah, I think given the new policy, the, the 3 that receives the most votes will be appointed and that, per the, the, the tally process. Yes, that city quickly. Go ahead.

[01:57:26] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: I just want to clarify that the appointment will actually happen at your next county.

[01:57:32] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Yes meeting. Yes, so on the 16th, this will come before you. Yes. So the 3 people with the most votes tonight will be appointed to the EPC at the November 16th meeting. And those people are Joyce, Chris, and Alex. Right now, what we're talking about is the alternate discussion. Council member of a code that put forward emotion, 2nded by council member Mattachek. And now we're talking about the substitute motion from council member Lieber and council member show Walter. Is there any clarif- further clarification needed? So you turn your show up around? Oh, say click laser. Go ahead. Do you need?

[01:58:15] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: Uh, yeah, I was just gonna ask Counselor reliever if she could clarify whether or not she wants an item to come before the council to discuss whether there should be an alternate or to. Jose, as an alternate. What did you mean by?

[01:58:38] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Well, tonight, it was noticed that we would appoint 3 members of the EPC to fulfill full terms and one to fulfill an unexpired term. So there's been a motion, uh, put forward to say that we should create an alternate position, and that we should appoint, uh, Mr. Gutierrez to it. And I, I, I think that, uh, we should bring back the issue of, uh, the, the creation of an alternate position since that was never noticed on our agenda for tonight. And, um, then I, I, I think we could take nominations. Um, on that when it comes back, but I, I really think that, um, It, it behooves us to stick to what has been publicly noticed. Um, and, um, the city attorney has talked about, um, how the charter and other governing documents address the membership of the EPC. And, um, I feel that the motion that has been made is not, uh, is not entirely congruent with that, and has not been publicly noticed.

[02:00:14] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thanks, Council member Leaper, does that clarify for colleagues and everyone on what the alternate motion is?

[02:00:22] Mayor Ellen Kamei: So I think the substitute motion is to bring back the topic of an EPC alternate at a future date. That's, I think, what I'm hearing. Is that? Council member, is that right?

[02:00:36] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Okay.

[02:00:37] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. So, um, I see other hands, so I'm going to go to council member Abby Koga and then Vice Mayor Ramirez.

[02:00:45] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Thank you, Mayor. So, um, I will can stay with my original motion, and, um, would point out that this is this evening a study session, as mentioned, has been mentioned by our city clerk, we are not making appointments this evening. We will actually be mate, we are tonight recommending to ourselves who to appoint. And so the publicly noticed piece will be at our council meeting when we do the appointments. And so there, it will be publicly noticed, and we can, I believe, make a recommendation tonight to create an alternate position and recommend, as I said, recommend Jose Gutariz to, um, take on that alternate position role. So, I think we are publicly within, you know, total guidelines of doing our public noticing. Um, this is a study session where we have discussion and that's what we're doing. And I, and I only bring this up really because it was such a tight boat. Um, frankly, number one, to advertise for just an alternate position. We've tried that and I think we've tried that in the past and we just don't get a lot of applicants given the nature of what the alternate does. And I would point out that the alternate position would be for the appointment that begins in January 2022 until uh, December of 2022. So it's really for that one year. So it's very difficult to reopen it and try to get applicants. So that's why it's, I think it's, you know, we should be working within this pool. And, um, you know, Mr. Gutierrez came in very close to being appointed, um, frankly, the others did not get, um, anywhere near the same number of votes. And so that's why I will be. That's why I made the motion the way I did. Um, I'm frankly not interested in just appointing, saying, let's create an alternate position and then go out to try to recruit for that position. It's only within this context of the pool we have today. And because Mr. Gutierrez came in so close. So I will not be supporting the substitute motion, but will stick with my current motion, should it fail, should the substitute fail. Thank you.

[02:03:03] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: If I could just take a moment to clarify, uh, you know, these procedures in terms of appointing advisory board members. They've been historically taken place in this fashion and they're, you know, in the more research that I've done while this meeting was occurring. Uh, it's, it is within the Brown Act to discuss the appointments tonight, and also, uh, the concept of an alternate in this, in this context, not, for example, creating a new procedure, uh, for alternate participation, such as the RHC, that was my, uh, misunderstanding of the, of the motion to begin with. So, the item tonight has been properly noticed under the Brown Act. Uh, there have historically been discussions of uh, vacant positions and how to address those. And this is also a study session where there's a preliminary discussion of candidates and a recommendation and an intention by the council to make a final action on the 16th. So, uh, perhaps, uh, to council member Lieber's concerns, uh, that the 16th could be used as a, um, as a follow through, if you will, or uh, uh, a next step in this discussion about, um, coming to some final decision on, on an alternate at that time. So, but just to clarify, the item tonight was properly agendized within the Brown Act, and encompasses this discussion and the limited context of an alternate in this context.

[02:04:55] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you, city attorney Chopra. Vice Mayor Ramirez.

[02:05:01] Vice Mayor Lucas Ramirez: Thank you mayor. Couple of years ago, correct me if I'm wrong. We had a planning commissioner who, um, made a request of the council to, uh, take an extended vacation, uh, which was granted, and we appointed, uh, not just an alternate, but an alternate with voting authority to participate, uh, during her absence. Um, there was no special procedure for that. It was just something that the council felt was an appropriate measure to take because there was going to be a long term absence. Um, and so I'm very comfortable with council member Robbie Koga's motion. Uh, I'm happy to support it. Um, and not only because I think we have precedent for, for doing so and actually a, a more extraordinary set of circumstances in that case. But also because I think it's very important to support our Latino community. I wish we could have appointed both Jose and Alex. Um, but that was not how the vote went out and that's fine. So I'm happy to support Jose as an alternate.

[02:06:16] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, great. Thank you. So, I see, uh, no other hands. So I think I'm just gonna call the question. Um, and we'll just do, um, a roll call vote, um, by, oh, Council member Lieber. Your hand went up. No? Is it okay to call the vote?

[02:06:37] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Yes.

[02:06:37] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay, perfect. And I just want to clarify,

[02:06:40] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: we do have the, the, 2 motions. We have this, are you referring to the substitute motion?

[02:06:46] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Correct.

[02:06:46] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: Mayor? Okay, thank you. Because the substitute motion supersedes the original motion. So we're going to vote on the substitute motion 1st and see how that how that goes.

[02:06:56] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Right? Okay, great. All right. So the, um, the substitute motion is to, um, have the topic of an EPC alternate combact council at a future date.

[02:07:12] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: Correct.

[02:07:14] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Yes, okay, I see. Council of reliever and Councilmer Shelters, head snotting. Okay.

[02:07:19] Mayor Ellen Kamei: And that was the motion by counselor reliever, 2nd did by council member show Walter.

[02:07:23] Mayor Ellen Kamei: So, um, Thanks everyone for the robust discussion. I think, um, you know, just wanted to say before I I vote, um, alternates are so tricky and and so difficult to, um, to have because, um, the the timing of our appointments has been such an interesting process. So, um, they appreciate the vice mayor reminding us that we did actually, um, appoint an alternate. And this is back in the good old days when we got to meet in person. Had to jog my memory. Um, and, and thank you for Counselor Mattach, who reminded us that she's an alternate. So it doesn't sound like it's an odd practice or something unusual or extraordinary that counsel hasn't done in the past. Um, and so, kind of, given the reasonings of how difficult it is to find alternates to appoint folks in between vacancies, um, because of our, I guess I would call it our outreach seasons. Um, I won't be voting for this motion, but just wanted to clarify my position before doing so. So, uh, city clerk laser. lets do the roll call.

[02:08:32] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member Lieber?

[02:08:34] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Hi.

[02:08:35] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Counselor Michelle Walter?

[02:08:38] Councilmember Pat Showalter: No.

[02:08:40] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member Abby Koga? No. No.

[02:08:43] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member Hicks?

[02:08:45] Councilmember Alison Hicks: No.

[02:08:47] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member, Mattachek?

[02:08:48] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: No.

[02:08:49] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Vice Mayor Ramirez?

[02:08:52] Vice Mayor Lucas Ramirez: No.

[02:08:53] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Mayor May.

[02:08:54] Mayor Ellen Kamei: No,

[02:08:55] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: motion fails.

[02:08:56] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Okay. So then we can go back to the original motion, which I believe was to, um, appoint the 4th person, our runner up, uh, Jose Gutierrez as an alternate. Should a vacancy become available? This isn't for filling in for absences. This is if a vacancy occurs. Okay. Does that sound right? Castlemer Robbie Koka and Kazmer Mattachak? Okay. All right, so let's call that question City Quick Laser.

[02:09:28] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member Abbe Koba?

[02:09:30] Councilmember Margaret Abe-Koga: Hi.

[02:09:31] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member Matachek?

[02:09:33] Councilmember Lisa Matichak: Yes.

[02:09:33] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member Hicks?

[02:09:34] Councilmember Alison Hicks: Yes.

[02:09:35] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member Lieber?

[02:09:37] Councilmember Sally Lieber: Uh, I'll abstain since it has not been publicly noticed.

[02:09:41] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Council member, shall Walter?

[02:09:44] Councilmember Pat Showalter: Yes.

[02:09:46] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Vice Mayor Ramirez?

[02:09:48] Vice Mayor Lucas Ramirez: Yes.

[02:09:49] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: May I come May?

[02:09:49] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Yes.

[02:09:50] Interim City Clerk Silvia Vonderlinden: Ocean carries?

[02:09:51] Mayor Ellen Kamei: All right. So for the November, thank you, everyone, for the November 16th agenda. We will recommend to ourselves, the council, um, to appoint, uh, for the 3 vacancies, choice, uh, Joycein, uh, Alejandro Nunez and Chris Clark, and as an alternate, uh, Jose Gutierrez. And we will vote on that on the 16th. Okay. All right. Thank you, everyone. Anything else on this item? City attorney or city clerk. Did I get everything?

[02:10:27] City Attorney Krishan Chopra: Yes, yes, ma'am.

[02:10:29] Mayor Ellen Kamei: Thank you. Great. Thank you. Appreciate it so much. Um, So we can move on to item 4 adjournment. So thank you so much for joining us, everyone. Our next regular city council meeting will be held tomorrow, November ninth at 6.30 PM. Until then, stay healthy, and our meeting is adjourned at 8.10 PM. Thanks, everyone. Appreciate everyone's patience. Have a great night. Bye.

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